The point of life/living

[lausten]

@mriana

Rick and Morty is a lame cartoon for adults

Hey. Be cool about Rick and Morty.

[lausten]

@inthedarkness

is it that foreign to think that someone can want to get better more than anything and yet not see results from having done everything

No. That happens. We know that. But we aren’t talking about everyone else. We’re talking to you, and we know you reject advice, you change what you say, you study difficult topics and say they are wrong based on terrible logic. We’re talking about you, not some generic "someone ".

[lausten]

@mriana

@inthedarkness

It doesn’t matter what your son has, everyone on the spectrum is different.

And that’s what I’ve been saying about people in general.

You say that. But several times you’ve asked why everyone doesn’t react the same to the same stimuli. Do you see why I don’t care what you say anymore? However I’ll respond, you’ll change what you said an hour ago.

[inthedarkness]

@write4u

Exactly. YOU ceased to exist for that duration.
But note that your autonomous Homeostatic system remained functional and kept you body’s chemistry in balance.

I didn’t cease to exist, otherwise I wouldn’t wake up again.

@lausten

So, now you say you have emotions tha can be triggered, but yesterday you said emotions don’t work that way. That’s why we can’t help you. It’s why a journal would help.

I didn’t say that. I said the issue gets triggered when I feel emotions because it’s about emotions so I can’t avoid the trigger like the advice says.

@lausten

You can learn more about meditation. It’s more than sitting quietly. But you want argue with your teachers, so you need a teacher that understands autism.

I’m not gonna repeat myself when I already said it didn’t work for me. Even the research shows the results are mixed.

@lausten

Because you are talking to people who don’t understand autism. We don’t understand your different way of thinking. And, when I showed you something specific to autism, you rejected it. Get help.

I didn’t reject it. I read both of them and gave my input. The psychology today I already explained myself on.

The first one wasn’t really accurate. Not every one on the spectrum has some special interest, sometimes it’s just the bad sort of fixation and not the good one. I mean it’s a meme online, about not having the useful fixation but just the crippling anxiety or something like it.

The advice they offered though isn’t really helpful. I’ve tried that before but it doesn’t stop the thinking or anything like that.

[inthedarkness]

@lausten

That’s what happens to everyone under anesthesia. I don’t believe that you don’t know that. Didn’t you talk to the nurses? They told you but you forgot or didn’t listen. Or, You are full of crap.

No they didn’t say that. I had my wisdom teeth taken out and all they told me was to count back. I blinked and it was over, I even remember asking my mom when they’d start.

It was the first time that happened because other time it was just a hazy feeling.

@mriana

Make your own list. Sometimes you just have to help yourself. Others can’t do it for you.

Well I kinda have to have others do it, because my own efforts aren’t doing anything.

@mriana

You don’t have to go against your own natural desire to find meaning. That’s not how science works.

No I said our natural desire is to find meaning, to find truth is to go against it. In fact that IS how science works, it often runs counter to our notions of reality.

@mriana

What is it you want? Maybe you need to try doing what you want instead of what other people tell you do. Sometimes one of the worst things one can do is what others say they think someone should do.

Well it’s all I got. I don’t have an answer for what I want to do. Every attempt I made doesn’t stick and every interest changes each day. Nothing is consistent enough to the point that I don’t even trust myself anymore. That’s why college didn’t work out because I couldn’t settle on a field of study.

So far I’ve only got the quick fixes of junk food, spending money, and video games. Brief dopamine highs and nothing more because there’s nothing else to me. I’ve been like this since I was a kid and it bothered me since then. Therapy hasn’t been able to help me with it. I envy the passion and fire I see people have when they know what they want because I’ve never felt that.

@mriana

It’s the truth though. It’s not a dodge at all, but the truth and if other therapists have told you this, then why the heck are you still going to them? If therapy is so bad and you’re insisting it doesn’t work, then why bother with it?

I don’t have any other options.

[inthedarkness]

@lausten

You say that. But several times you’ve asked why everyone doesn’t react the same to the same stimuli. Do you see why I don’t care what you say anymore? However I’ll respond, you’ll change what you said an hour ago.

I have asked that and people say that everyone is different but to me that means Gary is right and the source of the emotions is you and that you can create them at will.

I can’t even remember what I thought emotions were like before this. And if I can’t remember what it’s like I’m worried I’m stuck like this

[inthedarkness]

@mriana

Your emotions are not the trigger. I have PTSD, the Orange Menace can trigger it, but it’s not my emotions that triggers it. There are other things beside that Orange Menace, but my point is, the emotions are not the trigger. It’s the external stimuli that causes the emotions and traumatic memories.

I get that much. So it would be the joke, traffic, etc right? I’m just using the examples he gave.

I’d figure it’s safer bet to trust the person with the degree not the rando on the web.

@mriana

That’s what you do though- you DO SOMETHING! You don’t just sit around and say, “Well this doesn’t work.” It won’t work if you don’t DO SOMETHING!

No, your really don’t want it to work or you would have worked to find something that does work. You reject everything. So what’s the point?

I do want it but the stuff I’m doing isn’t working. I’m never not trying something to forget, solve or whatever about this stuff. But I’m losing. At the end of the day I’m just exhausted and wondering when it’s gonna get better or if this is my life.

@mriana

And yes, everyone on the AS is different, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be a functioning member of society. My other son has Bipolar disorder and he’s doing well. It is possible and guess what? There are a lot of Veterans who have PTSD too, not from abuse, but from war and they manage to function in society too. It doesn’t matter what you Dx is, if you have a desire to work on whatever it is to improve it, it is possible.

Again everyone is different, not everyone makes it can even if they try with all their might. And that’s what I’ve been doing but I’m too tired to kept it up. Tired of seeing nothing after months and tired of not sleeping and tired of every thought being contradicted.

Stop making it seem like a lack of hard work or desire because it’s pretty insulting. That’s like rich people telling the poor to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Hard work doesn’t always win and perseverance isn’t always rewarded.

[inthedarkness]

The only thing I know, if I know anything, is that I’m not quitting or giving up. Even if I have to keep pushing the boulder up that hill I’ll go until I can’t anymore.

[mriana]

@lausten

Hey. Be cool about Rick and Morty.

Sorry, I’m not a fan. I like Star Trek: Lower Decks though.

@lausten

You say that. But several times you’ve asked why everyone doesn’t react the same to the same stimuli. Do you see why I don’t care what you say anymore? However I’ll respond, you’ll change what you said an hour ago.

I’m a little confused, which one of us are you talking to? I’m assuming inthedarkness, but we both know what assume means.

@inthedarkness

Well I kinda have to have others do it, because my own efforts aren’t doing anything.

Well, you want others to do it for it then you’ll have to really try their suggestions and not say, “I tried once. It didn’t work and it will never work.”

@inthedarkness

No I said our natural desire is to find meaning, to find truth is to go against it. In fact that IS how science works, it often runs counter to our notions of reality.

Who says finding meaning is going against it? Who says science counters everyone’s notions of reality? I hate to break it to you, but life is a rose garden, thorns and all. There is beauty and thorns in life. We’re lucky if we can avoid the thorns, but it’s not always possible. Then after we live our life span, what that is for each of us, we return to the Earth. IMHO, the metaphor I created is beautiful and it gives life meaning, because we also have to strive to give life beauty by striving to better ourselves, others, and society during our lifetime. That is reality and there is science to it too, despite it being pure metaphor that I created.

@inthedarkness

Well it’s all I got. I don’t have an answer for what I want to do. Every attempt I made doesn’t stick and every interest changes each day. Nothing is consistent enough to the point that I don’t even trust myself anymore. That’s why college didn’t work out because I couldn’t settle on a field of study.

Sounds very much how you described your therapy. Just meandering through life. It’s no wonder you’re depressed and can’t find meaning in life.

@inthedarkness

So far I’ve only got the quick fixes of junk food, spending money, and video games.

Oh, those are lofty goals.

@inthedarkness

Brief dopamine highs and nothing more because there’s nothing else to me.

Well, seems to me, you have two choices- off yourself because hell there’s nothing else to you OR have a hospital stay to give you that jump start into therapy, really applying yourself to improve yourself, because damn! There’s nothing else. Personally, if I were in your shoes, I’d chose the hospital stay.

@inthedarkness

I don’t have any other options.

Yes, you do have options and as I said, choosing a hospital stay is the best one with the way you sound. No wonder your mental health professional tried to commit you. I’m surprised your own mother hasn’t done when you were a teenager. Mothers can do that, you know? I popped my bipolar son in the hospital when he attempted suicide- twice. He’s grown now- 35 years old and manages his bipolar.

@inthedarkness

I can’t even remember what I thought emotions were like before this. And if I can’t remember what it’s like I’m worried I’m stuck like this

No, you’re not stuck like whatever you are. You do have choices- poor ones, that can still land you in the hospital, if you’re lucky or Good choices. It’s up to you.

@inthedarkness

I’d figure it’s safer bet to trust the person with the degree not the rando on the web.

NEWS FLASH! I’m the random weirdo who does have a psychology degree. I did my research in neuropsychology and my thesis paper on ECT. They were swing courses, but still, I’ve done the work and got the sheep skin. That’s OK though. I’m just a rando on the internet here at CFI (Center for Inquiry). I’ll let you in on a little secret though, your therapist is probably struggling with depression, bipolar, or even an eating disorder. It might be the blind leading the blind, but they do know what helps, can empathize, and most likely knows when a person needs more help than just outpatient therapy. That and they have the education too. In some cases, they have it Piled high and Deep, but they can help you if you let them.

[mriana]

@inthedarkness

Stop making it seem like a lack of hard work or desire because it’s pretty insulting.

Maybe that’s what you need to hear and I already said everyone is different, but that doesn’t mean you have to wallow in self-pity and reject everything that is supposed to help. I truly believe what you said your therapist said, is right, but what do I know? I’m just that rando on the net who happens to have a degree in psychology, family with mental health issues, and personal experience. This is not the same as the poor person. Mental illness is a sickness, poverty is not, however, if the person who is sick of mind refuses help, then they will be in poverty or in the hospital, unable to pay the bill because they don’t have a job and health insurance because they chose to stay sick, refusing to get better. But if you don’t want to get well, go ahead, live in poverty. Poverty won’t make you mentally healthy though.

@inthedarkness

The only thing I know, if I know anything, is that I’m not quitting or giving up. Even if I have to keep pushing the boulder up that hill I’ll go until I can’t anymore.

Then stop refusing your therapist’s help.

[lausten]

Science and Society: Interview with Dr. Robert Sapolsky

Not much point commenting at this juncture

[write4u]

@inthedarkness

I didn’t cease to exist, otherwise I wouldn’t wake up again.

Your consciousness ceased to exist for the duration. Your body stayed alive and functional.
You didn’t die, but you were rendered into an object, a vegetative state for a while.
.
But YOU, your aware self went away for awhile. Total oblivion. As you cited yourself. No different than being dead.

[inthedarkness]

@mriana

Well, you want others to do it for it then you’ll have to really try their suggestions and not say, “I tried once. It didn’t work and it will never work.”

It’s not a one time thing, I’ve been doing it.

@mriana

Who says finding meaning is going against it? Who says science counters everyone’s notions of reality? I hate to break it to you, but life is a rose garden, thorns and all. There is beauty and thorns in life. We’re lucky if we can avoid the thorns, but it’s not always possible. Then after we live our life span, what that is for each of us, we return to the Earth. IMHO, the metaphor I created is beautiful and it gives life meaning, because we also have to strive to give life beauty by striving to better ourselves, others, and society during our lifetime. That is reality and there is science to it too, despite it being pure metaphor that I created.

Finding meaning is going against it. Science does say that, there is a whole thing about it in psychology about humans are meaning makers, so much so that we see meaning where there is none.

Pareidolia

Apophenia

@mriana

Sounds very much how you described your therapy. Just meandering through life. It’s no wonder you’re depressed and can’t find meaning in life.

You can’t find what doesn’t exist. There is no meaning to find in life, if there was everyone would get it from the same source.

@mriana

Oh, those are lofty goals.

Never said they were.

@mriana

Well, seems to me, you have two choices- off yourself because hell there’s nothing else to you OR have a hospital stay to give you that jump start into therapy, really applying yourself to improve yourself, because damn! There’s nothing else. Personally, if I were in your shoes, I’d chose the hospital stay.

The last time I was in a hospital I almost offed myself right there. That’s not a place to get better it’s where they store people and watch them get worse. It’s funny you mention my mom should have because she DID, and it just made things worse. The people there don’t actually care about you and it shows.

Other people say the same.

@mriana

No, you’re not stuck like whatever you are. You do have choices- poor ones, that can still land you in the hospital, if you’re lucky or Good choices. It’s up to you.

Obviously I don’t if I have to ask for help on the internet when other places failed me.

@mriana

NEWS FLASH! I’m the random weirdo who does have a psychology degree. I did my research in neuropsychology and my thesis paper on ECT.

That’s what I meant, the rando on the web I was talking about was that Gary dude. Well the guy who taught him was a neurosurgeon (Don Miguel Ruiz), but then again that guy also practiced shamanism so I’m iffy on his knowledge.
AKA this dude: https://pathwaytohappiness.com/about/gary-van-warmerdam/

[lausten]

@mriana

I’m a little confused

Comment was to darkness, but I needed to also show your part of that conversation

[lausten]

@inthedarkness

Science does say that, there is a whole thing about it in psychology about humans are meaning makers, so much so that we see meaning where there is none.

Science isn’t saying that we are wrong for making meaning. Science doesn’t pass that sort of judgment. You are the judgment maker. You get depressed because there isn’t a creator, or we don’t have a reason for why there is a universe. That’s you. You make it mean that. I make it mean that I am free to create joy. Science doesn’t judge either one of us or say it’s wrong to do either.

[inthedarkness]

@mriana

Then stop refusing your therapist’s help.

I’m not.

@lausten

Not much point commenting at this juncture

One thing I don’t like about him is not having a plan for what the world would be like if he spread the news on that.

I saw him talking with a youtuber I watch, Cosmicskeptic, and while they believe the same thing I didn’t like that they have no plan for what to do with society and no free will. Like…you’re talking about upending everything and you DONT KNOW what to put in it’s place?!

@mriana

Maybe that’s what you need to hear and I already said everyone is different, but that doesn’t mean you have to wallow in self-pity and reject everything that is supposed to help.

I’m tired of repeating this, I’m not rejecting it, I’ve done the work and taken the advice and it didn’t work.

@mriana

I truly believe what you said your therapist said, is right, but what do I know? I’m just that rando on the net who happens to have a degree in psychology, family with mental health issues, and personal experience.

Except I keep telling her stuff isn’t working and she doesn’t listen. Like when I told you she showed me that list and I said to here none of those soothing techniques worked. I know because I’ve ran through that list. She told me she didn’t know how to help if none of that works.

The fact is they don’t listen, they keep trying to push things that don’t work. I get angry when I tell them something isn’t helping and all they’ve got is to just keep doing it. They’re worthless.

Honestly I leave my sessions feeling angry because it’s like talking to a wall. I don’t need sheets or questionnaires or stupid tricks that do nothing, I need to talk and she isn’t helping me there. None of them did.

It’s like they don’t see a person on the other end.

[inthedarkness]

@lausten

You get depressed because there isn’t a creator, or we don’t have a reason for why there is a universe. That’s you. You make it mean that. I make it mean that I am free to create joy. Science doesn’t judge either one of us or say it’s wrong to do either.

I’m not depressed there is no creator or a reason why there is a universe. Rather that there doesn’t seem to be a point to any of this, nothing to drive one on besides some survival will.

It’s like noticing how we built this whole world and all it’s rules and pretend they matter or are important, but in the grand scheme it’s just iron and rock and glass. Why chase that job? Why find a partner, get a house (or apartment), why do any of the things one does in life? Because we’re alive? That’s not a reason. Doing all that only makes sense if you have to be alive and you don’t. You could just die and then all the concern over that goes away. No more joy, pain, anger, any of it. Not even having to concern oneself with wants and fulfilling them.

We don’t have to live.

[mriana]

@inthedarkness

Honestly I leave my sessions feeling angry because it’s like talking to a wall. I don’t need sheets or questionnaires or stupid tricks that do nothing, I need to talk and she isn’t helping me there. None of them did.

Have you tried writing your feelings… like a journal or even writing to your inner child?

And yes, you do have choices, whether you know it or not. Going to the internet is one, but that’s not going help you as much as the therapist.

@inthedarkness

It’s like noticing how we built this whole world and all it’s rules and pretend they matter or are important, but in the grand scheme it’s just iron and rock and glass. Why chase that job? Why find a partner, get a house (or apartment), why do any of the things one does in life? Because we’re alive? That’s not a reason. Doing all that only makes sense if you have to be alive and you don’t. You could just die and then all the concern over that goes away. No more joy, pain, anger, any of it. Not even having to concern oneself with wants and fulfilling them.

We don’t have to live.

That sounds like depression. And BTW, I’ve worked as a psych tech on the adult psych ward and trust me, we didn’t neglect the patients or watch them get worse. Of course, one person who violent and refused treatment was sent to the State Mental health hospital. So, don’t tell me all they do in the hospital is watch people get worse. They have therapy, see the psychiatrist, group therapy, etc. Patients aren’t allowed to sit around and do nothing.

[lausten]

@inthedarkness

@lausten

So, now you say you have emotions that can be triggered, but yesterday you said emotions don’t work that way. That’s why we can’t help you. It’s why a journal would help.

I didn’t say that. I said the issue gets triggered when I feel emotions because it’s about emotions so I can’t avoid the trigger like the advice says.

I don’t see the difference. “emotions can be triggered” or “issue gets triggered when I feel emotions”.

@inthedarkness

It was the first time that happened because other time it was just a hazy feeling.

That still doesn’t make you different from others.

@inthedarkness

No I said our natural desire is to find meaning, to find truth is to go against it. In fact that IS how science works, it often runs counter to our notions of reality.

Science is about determining the probability that something is true, and we know that can never be 100%. I don’t know what you are trying to say.

@inthedarkness

I have asked that and people say that everyone is different but to me that means Gary is right and the source of the emotions is you and that you can create them at will.

Everyone being different doesn’t mean everyone can create their feelings at will. That is possibly the worst piece of logic you have presented, and you have presented some really bad logic.

@inthedarkness

And if I can’t remember what it’s like I’m worried I’m stuck like this

You don’t have to remember what emotions are, you just experience them.

@inthedarkness

or if this is my life

Who else’s life would it be?

@inthedarkness

Hard work doesn’t always win and perseverance isn’t always rewarded.

You work pretty hard at finding something wrong with every possible thing that everyone else who reports these problems has tried. You didn’t invent the question. You aren’t the first one to ask why. You aren’t the first one to stop believing there is a grand design or ultimate answer. Get over yourself.

@inthedarkness

you’re talking about upending everything and you DONT KNOW what to put in it’s place?!

Why should they have all the answers? That seems to be your problem. You grew up, learned some stuff, found out all the adults in the world don’t have all the answers, and now you are throwing a temper tantrum.

@inthedarkness

No more joy, pain, anger, any of it. Not even having to concern oneself with wants and fulfilling them.

I can understand if someone is dying, knowing they will be in pain with a disease that can’t be cured, but why in the world would you want to stop having joy?

[miastarr]

A common problem skeptics face is having nothing to believe in, no sense of purpose. Knowing how to solve the nature of our reality is a great help here. This is my area of expertise.