PZ Myers comments on this study]
PZ has a few choice words on the study. Basically, don’t feel too superior, declaring yourself atheist doesn’t make you smarter. Also, he cites a different study and agrees with its conclusion that the issues are socioeconomic
But it’s not lack of intelligence that is at the heart of religion, it’s class and emotional/cultural/historical concerns. Poor performance on IQ tests is simply a side-effect of discrimination and deprivation.So the solution is to reduce the disparity of classes. Always a good idea.
Lord how I loathe studies like this. I find them insulting and I’m a freaking atheist. They always reek of smug douchebaggery and confimation bias to me. I wish they’d stop making them, but it seems everyone likes “scientific” “proof” of how superior they are. Pfeh.
PZ Myers comments on this study] PZ has a few choice words on the study. Basically, don't feel too superior, declaring yourself atheist doesn't make you smarter. Also, he cites a different study and agrees with its conclusion that the issues are socioeconomicNo one said that declaring yourself an atheist would make you smarter. That is a ridiculous twisting of what the survey reported. What it said was that more people who declare themselves as atheists tend to have higher IQs than the general population. That is a far cry from claiming that declaring yourself an atheist makes you smarter. This is why some surveys get a bad reputation. People refuse to understand what they are actually saying, unfortunately, some of them are journalists who should know better. LoisBut it’s not lack of intelligence that is at the heart of religion, it’s class and emotional/cultural/historical concerns. Poor performance on IQ tests is simply a side-effect of discrimination and deprivation.So the solution is to reduce the disparity of classes. Always a good idea.
You’re right about that, Lois. There are studies correlating advanced education with lowered belief in gods. Education itself does not make one smarter, but smarter people tend to seek education, and accumulating knowledge helps defeat superstition.
Lord how I loathe studies like this. I find them insulting and I’m a freaking atheist. They always reek of smug douchebaggery and confimation bias to me. I wish they’d stop making them, but it seems everyone likes “scientific" “proof" of how superior they are. Pfeh.Completely agree on that. Here in the Lil' 'Ol South, I deal with religious people all the time. These people are NOT stupid by any stretch of the imagination and in a debate can engage you on any level. What a lot of them are is INDOCTRINATED, and almost always from birth. When you've been indoctrinated in a belief system and culture from before you're even weaned from Mama's breast, it's extremely difficult to get past that. Even when you come to understand...deep down...that it's all crap, it's very hard to just throw it away. Intelligence has nothing to do with it.
Well, I think intelligence is one factor in a sea of factors. We never know for sure what motivates a person to maintain a religius belief or reject it. It is never one factor. It's the same with all human decisions. But the study did show that atheists score higher on IQ tests than the general population. LoisLord how I loathe studies like this. I find them insulting and I’m a freaking atheist. They always reek of smug douchebaggery and confimation bias to me. I wish they’d stop making them, but it seems everyone likes “scientific" “proof" of how superior they are. Pfeh.Completely agree on that. Here in the Lil' 'Ol South, I deal with religious people all the time. These people are NOT stupid by any stretch of the imagination and in a debate can engage you on any level. What a lot of them are is INDOCTRINATED, and almost always from birth. When you've been indoctrinated in a belief system and culture from before you're even weaned from Mama's breast, it's extremely difficult to get past that. Even when you come to understand...deep down...that it's all crap, it's very hard to just throw it away. Intelligence has nothing to do with it.
But the study did show that atheists score higher on IQ tests than the general population.I'm sure it did, but when you have to factor in a possible bias on the part of the ones doing the study, it doesn't mean much.
But the study did show that atheists score higher on IQ tests than the general population. LoisLois, It may please you to know that you're not the first to trumpet the ignorance of Christians. In the 2nd century AD, Cornelius Celsus also made the charge, "This is one of their [the Christians'] rules. Let no man that is learned, wise, or prudent come among us: but if they be unlearned, or a child, or an idiot, let him freely come. So they openly declare that none but the ignorant, and those devoid of understanding, slaves, women, and children, are fit disciples for the God they worship." ~ Aulus Cornelius Celsus It is true that Christ accepts all men and women who come to him, and Christians love all who come into their community. It is love and acceptance, not an intelligence test that is required to be a Christian. That's why they sing silly songs like, "We will work with each other, we will work side by side And we'll guard each one's dignity and save each one's pride And they'll know we are Christians by our love..." Loving your brother, your neighbor and even your enemy is a tough thing. But that's the goal of the Christian, not to score the best on an intelligence test. Of course Celsus was exaggerating, today there are many very intelligent people in all walks of life that are Christian, and there are many who aren't. Sometimes the less intelligent among us teach us all a lesson on what it is to love.
Sometimes the less intelligent among us teach us all a lesson on what it is to love.I prefer dogs to gods. Their messes are easier to clean.
There is "possible" bias in every study that has ever been done. Do we throw them all out? What is the bias in this study? Can you point to a specific instances of it? LoisBut the study did show that atheists score higher on IQ tests than the general population.I'm sure it did, but when you have to factor in a possible bias on the part of the ones doing the study, it doesn't mean much.
I think IQ testing is only unscientific when it comes to the comparison of races. I don’t at least see the usual skeptics here to complain about IQ as when I bring up the topic of races.
I think IQ testing is only unscientific when it comes to the comparison of races.George, I'm so happy that you recogize that. :lol: :lol: :lol: (_e=mC2_) Occam
There is “possible" bias in every study that has ever been done. Do we throw them all out?if it has an overwhelming effect on the results...yes.
What is the bias in this study? Can you point to a specific instances of it?I didn't say specifically that there was. I said when you factor in POSSIBLE bias, it doesn't mean much. When any sort of objective peer review has been done, get back to me. (In the meantime, I think you doth protesteth too much, if only because you appear to WANT the study to be validated.)
Give me one reason I or any atheist wouldn't want it validated. You, on the other hand, appear to NOT want it to be validated. Why should that be? LoisThere is “possible" bias in every study that has ever been done. Do we throw them all out?if it has an overwhelming effect on the results...yes.What is the bias in this study? Can you point to a specific instances of it?I didn't say specifically that there was. I said when you factor in POSSIBLE bias, it doesn't mean much. When any sort of objective peer review has been done, get back to me. (In the meantime, I think you doth protesteth too much, if only because you appear to WANT the study to be validated.)
I think IQ testing is only unscientific when it comes to the comparison of races.George, I'm so happy that you recogize that. :lol: :lol: :lol: (_e=mC2_) Occam A lot of people would deem it unscientific if their score comes out lower than they expected. In fact it's the usual response. Lois
I think IQ testing is only unscientific when it comes to the comparison of races. I don't at least see the usual skeptics here to complain about IQ as when I bring up the topic of races.Well, you didn't bring up race until this particular post. In fact there probably ARE differences in scores when race is taken into consideration but most people just don't want to admit it because some people will accuse them of being racist if they point it out. Lois
A very long time ago on this forum, Lois, there was a running discussion on the possible intelligence differences among the races, and it got quite acrimonious. Doug finally warned the participants and shut down the whole thing. George was given a hard time by some others for his stand (of course, he also did a good job of contributing to the tenor of the thread). My comment a few posts above was me being a wise ass and teasing George. :lol:
Occam