No Thread on HBO's Scientology Documentary?

Its called Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief]. If you’re at all familiar with Scientology, there’s probably nothing surprising in it, but its still a must see, IMHO. (If you don’t have HBO, I’m 100% certain that pirated copies are easily available for watching on the web.) HBO hired over 100 lawyers to look over every detail of the program before it aired. Supposedly, there’s a 4 hour version which is unlikely to see the light of day due to concerns over lawsuits.
The footage they got of L. Ron Hubbard is amazing, and the interviews with the people who left were extremely unsettling. I can’t help but wonder why they didn’t mention L. Ron Hubbard, Jr.], Hubbard’s first wife], the Nation of Islam adopting Scientology’s methods], or Lisa McPherson’s death at the hands of Scientologists.]
Supposedly, they’re having real trouble recruiting members. I know that, at least around here, they’ve had problems finding anyone willing to rent to them. The building they were operating out of about 10 years or so ago, got bulldozed to make room for a skyscraper, and it took them quite a while before they were able to find a new place. Their old place was in the heart of Nashville (a friend of mine worked in a recording studio across the street from their old place, and at lunch he’d watch people go out their way to avoid walking in front of the Scientology building), their new place is farther out and in a “sketchy” neighborhood. (Not really dangerous, but would make you nervous to be in late at night.)
In all the official Scientology videos they show, you can’t help but notice that everyone is white. They have a clip of the largest gathering of church members (they filled a stadium in L. A.) and there was one person of color in the audience: Isaac Hayes.
A BBC reporter in the 60s got Hubbard to admit on camera that Hubbard wrestled with the idea often that he might be crazy. They also interviewed the guy who did Hubbard’s auditing sessions.
Its as crazy as you expect, and then goes past that.

I don’t get HBO so haven’t seen the documentary. I tried reading Dianetics a few decades ago but only got about 50 pages into it. I found it extremely boring. From what I have read, and from my few encounters with Scientology evangelists on the street, I concluded Scientology is the most ridiculous region mankind has invented. The Skeptics Guide to the Universe{/i] devoted some time to the documentary this week and discussed some of the topics you raised. Not only was Hubbard borderline insane, he was abusive, and it seems his successor is even worse.
As an aside, in the book The Way the Future Was Frederick Pohl recounted an evening in Arthur C Clarke’s apartment, drinking beer with Clarke, Robert Silverberg, and L Ron Hubbard, when they were discussing religion and Hubbard bet them #5 he could start a religion. The roots of Scientology can be traced to a drunken bet.

Just from a cursory viewing of the documentary, I would say that Scientology has been successful by drawing in folks by appealing to their humanistic as well as their self-interest motivations. Then by the time they are in it for so long and have moved up the ranks, enough to get the really cuckoo “secret” teachings, the cognitive dissonance of most believers leads them to accept the most unlikely of ideas. (i.e., I couldn’t have invested this much of my life and treasure, and have experienced my success in life, if this were not true.)

Just from a cursory viewing of the documentary, I would say that Scientology has been successful by drawing in folks by appealing to their humanistic as well as their self-interest motivations. Then by the time they are in it for so long and have moved up the ranks, enough to get the really cuckoo "secret" teachings, the cognitive dissonance of most believers leads them to accept the most unlikely of ideas. (i.e., I couldn't have invested this much of my life and treasure, and have experienced my success in life, if this were not true.)
however, the same could be said of many mainstream religions. One difference is that cults usually have a human leader who is venerated as supreme, often with supernatural-like powers, who claims to have direct communictaion to a god, and who must be obeyed. Here are some other indications: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/06/the-seven-signs-youre-in-a-cult/361400/

I’ve seen it and it makes me mad. I’ll bet it’s various mainstream religious groups going after Scientology because they know they peddle in the same crap, but now this group is making inroads into their market. Kinda like cigar makers accusing cigarette makers of poisoning people. And bottom line…how many people have died because of Sci? And how many because of Christianity? And how is some Thetan alien with spooky powers different from a guy who when thrown into a cave dead, re-animates himself, moves the boulder, and ascends into space?
ASIDE: If you’re interested, Gore Vidal wrote two books that take this idea as a basis for a novel, how religions form around charismatic people. Titled Kalki and the other titled Messiah.

Okay, I finished the book it was based on, this week, and the book covers the things I was wondering why the documentary didn’t mention. It also spends, IMHO, an inordinate amount of time detailing the life of privilege which the CoS has given to Cruise. Also, Paul Haggis’ leaving the Church isn’t quite as dramatic in the book as they make it out to be in the documentary. Everything happened as they said it did, but Haggis never really bought into a great deal of Scientology to begin with. The best way to describe his stance would be to compare him to an atheist who uses Buddhist meditation techniques, rather than someone who gradually lost their faith.
I did learn a number of things from the book, some of which weren’t really surprising (though others were). One is that Robert Heinlein was bisexual. I’d suspected that from some of the elements of his writing, but the book confirms it when it mentions that he and Hubbard got their freak on together. (When Heinlein, his wife (Leslyn), and Hubbard were hanging around with Jack Parson, the three of them chewed on one another with some regularity. I have to admit, I could do without the image of Hubbard’s fish lips wrapped around some guy’s cock that the subject invokes.)
And I will say that Heinlein and Hubbard did have a number of things in common. This review of a biography of Heinlein], quotes Heinlein making the same kind of disparaging comments about China which Hubbard had made decades earlier upon his return from that country.
The book indirectly asks if the CoS (and David Miscavige in particular in one case) are responsible for murder. Not simply cases like Lisa McPherson, where they allowed a person to die from neglect, but out-right murder. One of the former heads of Scientology, who’s death was ruled a “suicide” by the L.A. coroner, was found with her wrists slashed and bound, she had multiple bullet wounds in her chest, and a shot through the temple. The other person is the wife of Miscavige, who hasn’t been seen by anyone since she was shipped off to a private “center” some years ago. Miscavige still sends her presents, but as far as anyone knows, has never gone to see her.
The book concludes with an attitude of, “Well, you know, in the early days of a religion, they tend to do crazy shit, but after a while, they settle down and act ‘normal.’” Which to me, is little different than the Catholic Church turning a blind eye to the centuries of abuse doled out to children by priests. I don’t care, if Scientology’s actions are somehow “normal” within the sphere of religious behavior, a considerable amount of the shit that they’re doing is wrong. And they should be held accountable for it, as should every other religion (which is all of them). Saying that they’ve killed fewer people at this point in their history than did Islam, Christianity, or any other religion you want to talk about, doesn’t erase the fact that people are dead because of a belief system created by a mad man. Is being beaten and starved to death that much of an improvement over burning someone at the stake or crucifying them? I don’t think so.
Hopefully, despite the author’s ‘accepting’ attitude of Scientology, the book and the documentary will awaken enough people’s eyes into the Church that it gets shut down and the leaders arrested and convicted. I’m not going to hold my breath, however.

Oh, and everyone should listen to this podcast about Hubbard’s friend, Jack Parson (founder of JPL).] Not mentioned in either the podcast or the documentary, is that at a SF convention, Hubbard and Parson’s supposedly drew a pentagram on the bathroom floor of their hotel room using toothpaste and tried to summon a succubus.

If we could have found a charismatic leader Patafarianism might have given Scientology a run for its money. Scientology has won the contest for the best satire of religion. It has done what Pastafarianism was unable to pull off.
Pastafarianism could never have mocked religion as thoroughly as Scientology has done. How did we go so wrong?
Lois