The Inter-Mind Theory is a postulation of the relationship between Consciousness and Physical Reality. And the Conscious Self (CSf) is part of the Conscious Mind (CM). And through the exercise of Conscious Volition (CV), CSf, which is you, came up with the Inter-Mind Theory (IM).
What is the nature of the Conscious Self? Is it the same entity around which Sigmund Freud developed his Personality Theory?
@sree: The Inter-Mind Theory is a postulation of the relationship between Consciousness and Physical Reality. And the Conscious Self (CSf) is part of the Conscious Mind (CM). And through the exercise of Conscious Volition (CV), CSf, which is you, came up with the Inter-Mind Theory (IM).What is the nature of the Conscious Self? Is it the same entity around which Sigmund Freud developed his Personality Theory?
If there are Experiences to be had then there must be an Experiencer, the CSf, that is having these Experiences. That is the limit of my understanding of a Conscious Self.Your basic contention - the crux of your Theory - is that the Conscious Self is not in Physical Space but in Conscious Space. I am the Experiencer. I am in Conscious Space. I cannot exit Conscious Space. The totality of me, the Conscious Self, is Conscious Space. Am I correct?
I am inhabiting your Theory to test it. I am not attacking it. Don’t be defensive; after all, what have you got to lose? The scientific way to validate a theory is to devise an experiment to prove it. Do you agree? Two heads are better than one, and co-operation is the intelligent way to inquire. We need to point it out when our reasoning is out of whack. I don’t accept Buddhism of the kind Alan Wallace is touting. He is convinced that he has the backing of science. I suspect that he will be defensive because he is a Tibetan Lama with western academic credentials in physics. He has a lot to lose.
@sree: Your basic contention – the crux of your Theory – is that the Conscious Self is not in Physical Space but in Conscious Space. I am the Experiencer. I am in Conscious Space. I cannot exit Conscious Space. The totality of me, the Conscious Self, is Conscious Space. Am I correct? I am inhabiting your Theory to test it. I am not attacking it. Don’t be defensive; after all, what have you got to lose? The scientific way to validate a theory is to devise an experiment to prove it. Do you agree? Two heads are better than one, and co-operation is the intelligent way to inquire. We need to point it out when our reasoning is out of whack. I don’t accept Buddhism of the kind Alan Wallace is touting. He is convinced that he has the backing of science. I suspect that he will be defensive because he is a Tibetan Lama with western academic credentials in physics. He has a lot to lose.I welcome your interest in The Inter Mind. I agree with trying to find an Experiment. My approach has been to take suggestions from Quantum Mechanics that there is a Conscious aspect involved in QM experiments. If Conscious Space exists and is connected to our Neurons then there might be other devices besides Neurons that can make this connection. I have used semiconductor devices like Tunnel Diodes and Floating Gate Transistors to devise experiments to see if I can get any Conscious behavior from a theoretical Conscious Space. These first experiments ran for a couple of years and produced negative results. However, I realized that I would have to operate the Devices with at least a 100000 times more sensitive setup before I can truly say that the QM connection idea is not workable. But I did the best that could be done in a home lab situation. I am waiting for the Single Electron Transistor to be developed for room temperature environments (currently these are used in super cooled laboratory experiments). There are also other QM related effects like Quantum Fluctuations (very speculative) that I would like to explore some day.
If Conscious Space exists and is connected to our Neurons then there might be other devices besides Neurons that can make this connection.Don't you think that it is necessary to check out one assumption at a time and eliminate it if it is flawed? To resolve The Hard Problem, you put forth your Inter-Mind Theory based on the supposition that Conscious Mind in Conscious Space is separate from Physical Mind in Physical Space. And now you are suggesting that "all three Minds are actually in the Neurons". The neuron is the physical cell at the root cause of The Hard Problem: the mystery of how physical processes (of the brain) give rise to consciousness.
What do you say?
Don’t you think that it is necessary to check out one assumption at a time and eliminate it if it is flawed? To resolve The Hard Problem, you put forth your Inter-Mind Theory based on the supposition that Conscious Mind in Conscious Space is separate from Physical Mind in Physical Space. And now you are suggesting that “all three Minds are actually in the Neurons”. The neuron is the physical cell at the root cause of The Hard Problem: the mystery of how physical processes (of the brain) give rise to consciousness.What do you say?
Nothing is really known for sure. All anyone can do is Speculate.I can buy that. But what is motivating the speculator to seek understanding of the experience of Redness? Conscious Volition must be initiated by something. There are so many questions, and they arise with every need to know.
How come other creatures - except us - in the animal kingdom are not curious about how experience happens? They live out their lives and don’t commit suicide like we do.
I can buy that. But what is motivating the speculator to seek understanding of the experience of Redness? Conscious Volition must be initiated by something. There are so many questions, and they arise with every need to know.How come other creatures – except us – in the animal kingdom are not curious about how experience happens? They live out their lives and don’t commit suicide like we do.
Other creatures just aren’t smart enough to commit suicide. They cannot have a To Be or Not To Be thought.
I am hoping that understanding something like the Experience of Redness will bring us closer to understanding what the Conscious Self, the Experiencer, is.Understand the experience to get to the experiencer? This is an important question. Who says it is Redness, and wants to understand how it materializes in the field of experience? You are the mission commander, the explorer, Experiencer, the Conscious Self with the Conscious Volition to embark on the inquiry into Redness. You don't think it is logical to figure out what you are first and why you are doing this?
I know you are earnest in thinking this through with me and I appreciate it.
Understand the experience to get to the experiencer? This is an important question. Who says it is Redness, and wants to understand how it materializes in the field of experience? You are the mission commander, the explorer, Experiencer, the Conscious Self with the Conscious Volition to embark on the inquiry into Redness. You don’t think it is logical to figure out what you are first and why you are doing this?I know you are earnest in thinking this through with me and I appreciate it.
I am unable to understand what I am just thinking about it. The Redness, and all the other Sensory Experiences, come from inside my Mind, so I understand that I literally am the Redness and I am the other Experiences. This thought has gotten me closer to understanding what I might be.I like the way you articulated this. You are the Redness: the Experiencer is the experience. We are using the English Language to express something new. Language is the tool of expression for describing known concepts of reality. The search for the nature of Redness and its causation is an endeavor to step beyond the limits of current science to discover a new reality. This is ground-breaking stuff.
I like the way you articulated this. You are the Redness: the Experiencer is the experience. We are using the English Language to express something new. Language is the tool of expression for describing known concepts of reality. The search for the nature of Redness and its causation is an endeavor to step beyond the limits of current science to discover a new reality. This is ground-breaking stuff.I'm happy to see that you can understand the Excitement involved in thinking about these things. It will be the next big Scientific endeavor.
One thing I should add to my previous post is that although I can Logically come to the conclusion that I Am the Redness, I still cannot understand How I am the Redness. It still seems to me to be an Experience and Experiencer dichotomy.
I’m happy to see that you can understand the Excitement involved in thinking about these things. It will be the next big Scientific endeavor.Excitement is an understatement when you sense that you are on the cusp of finding something new. This is more mind-blowing that inventing the wheel, the computer, or flying to the moon. All those achievements are feats in the acquisition of knowledge within the domain of reality and the field of consciousness. Grappling with consciousness itself is exactly what it is: mind-blowing. It dwarfs what Bill Gates and Steve Jobs did and far more meaningful to mankind than what Elon Musk is chasing. I don't think the scientific approach to understanding Redness has anything to do with the settled science of theoretical physics.
One thing I should add to my previous post is that although I can Logically come to the conclusion that I Am the Redness, I still cannot understand How I am the Redness. It still seems to me to be an Experience and Experiencer dichotomy.I am absolutely with you on this. Logic and reason are part and parcel of sane inquiry. We may intuit that we are the Redness by making a quantum leap of logic. But until this gap in reason is resolved, it is unscientific to proceed with speculation. To do so is to indulge in self-deception.
I’m happy to see that you can understand the Excitement involved in thinking about these things. It will be the next big Scientific endeavor.
Excitement is an understatement when you sense that you are on the cusp of finding something new. This is more mind-blowing that inventing the wheel, the computer, or flying to the moon. All those achievements are feats in the acquisition of knowledge within the domain of reality and the field of consciousness. Grappling with consciousness itself is exactly what it is: mind-blowing. It dwarfs what Bill Gates and Steve Jobs did and far more meaningful to mankind than what Elon Musk is chasing. I don’t think the scientific approach to understanding Redness has anything to do with the settled science of theoretical physics.There will need to be a New Approach when Science finally comes to grips with Consciousness. For now Science is sadly just sweeping Consciousness under the rug.
I am absolutely with you on this. Logic and reason are part and parcel of sane inquiry. We may intuit that we are the Redness by making a quantum leap of logic. But until this gap in reason is resolved, it is unscientific to proceed with speculation. To do so is to indulge in self-deception.A Speculation is merely a Premise put forward that will either be proved or disproved by Experiments or the test of time. I think that Speculation has been the basis for a lot of good Science. Edison Speculated that he would be able to find the right filament material to make the light bulb a practical product. His lab tested over 6000 different materials before he found the best filament.
The Levels of Understanding of the Internal Combustion Engine:
Level 1- You turn the key for the ignition, and the Engine starts. You can drive away.
Level 2- You come to understand that, inside the engine there are cylinders with have movable pistons that go up and down when the right mixture of fuel and air enters the cylinders and explode, pushing the pistons (that are attached to other parts of the engine) up and down.
Level 3- This is the HARD PART that NO ONE will EVER be able to understand, after so many years of trying: What causes the explosion??? Sure you can say that it is a spark that ignites a certain mixture of air and gas, but that doesn’t explain what an explosion is. Some things explode and others don’t. How can we EVER explain such a thing???
Oh wait, it is not really a HARD PROBLEM at all. Some things explode, under the right conditions, and some things don’t. THAT IS THE EXPLANATION. IT JUST IS. THAT’S WHAT HAPPENS.
JUST LIKE WHEN YOUR EYE TAKES IN INFORMATION AND YOUR BRAIN INTERPRETS IT AS BEAUTIFUL COLORS. THAT IS JUST WHAT HAPPENS. IT IS NOT A HARD PROBLEM WAITING TO BE SOLVED. IT IS WHAT HAPPENS.
A child might ask “why”, and being given an answer to which they ask why of that, and so on until there is no other explanation left except “That’s what happens. The neurons fire in such a way that you see beautiful colors.” That is something that our brain does. No HARD PROBLEM is manifested except by those who may wish it to be something else.
As far as “consciousness” goes. I have explained what that is many times on these threads. Once more into the useless breach, for the swine to trample on my pearls of wisdom - into their muck and refuse, never recognizing the value of what they trample away:
Consciousness is the composite of certain cognitive behaviors that manifest in our brains as neurological correlates.
There you go, trample away.
timb:
Your Deep Thoughts go nowhere.
But carry on. I tire of wasting pearls on you.
"If you would or could think more Deeply about your own Conscious Sensory Experiences you would discover the Infantile nature of your analogy."The random use of capitalization never ceases to impress the most ignorant and uneducated of audiences. Even meaningless drivel like this can be made to appear profound.
Unfortunately for you, most of the people here are neither ignorant nor uneducated.
Instead of posting here, try writing your message on a sandwich-board that you wear while shouting and waving your hands in traffic. You can be sure your many capital letters won’t capture fewer converts than they do here. (Pro-Tip: wear shoes or no one will take you seriously.)
Unfortunately for you, most of the people here are neither ignorant nor uneducated.You wish.