More are adding to the consensus
What consensus?
That there was an actual historical charismatic person who gathered a lots of fans, and who’s death touched the hearts of many.
That this person’s memory was then “deified” by humans, long after his death - furthermore that his memory and image that was then used to form a powerful political-religious movement?
The consensus on Jesus mythicism. The consensus of Biblical scholars is that there was probably a person named Jesus and he was most likely crucified. Really, that’s it. Carrier’s books have been about proving that there never was a person named Jesus behind the Biblical stories. It was myth from the start. It was turned into a historical figure, a process called euhemerism.
Well that was a wonderful late night brainstorming session.
Party is over.
Snip.
As for getting a real world appreciation for who Jesus was, I don’t think there’s a better source than:
Jesus Christ Superstar (1970 Original London Concept Recording) [Full Album]
Rand0mBananaGuy - Apr 13, 2014
Side one:
Overture - 0:00
Heaven on Their Minds - 3:59
What’s the Buzz/Strange Thing Mystifying - 8:19
Everything’s Alright - 12:33
This Jesus Must Die - 17:47
Side two:
Hosanna - 21:24
Simon Zealotes/Poor Jerusalem - 23:33
Pilate’s Dream - 28:21
The Temple - 29:49
Everything’s Alright (reprise) - 34:32
I Don’t Know How to Love Him - 35:01
Damned for All Time/Blood Money - 38:42
Side three:
The Last Supper - 43:54
Gethsemane (I Only Want to Say) - 51:01
The Arrest - 56:34
Peter’s Denial - 59:55
Pilate and Christ/Hosanna (reprise) - 1:01:23
Herod’s Song (Try It and See) - 1:04:07
Side four:
Judas’ Death - 1:07:09
Trial Before Pilate (Including the 39 Lashes) - 1:11:24
Superstar - 1:16:37
The Crucifixion - 1:20:51
John Nineteen: Forty-One - 1:24:58
Jesus Christ Superstar is a 1970 rock opera by Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice. The album musical is a musical dramatisation of the last week of the life of Jesus Christ, beginning with his entry into Jerusalem and ending with the Crucifixion. It was originally banned by the BBC on grounds of being “sacrilegious.”
The album’s story is based in large part on the Synoptic Gospels and Fulton J. Sheen’s Life of Christ, which compares and calibrates all four Gospels. However, greater emphasis is placed on the interpersonal relationships of the major characters, in particular, Jesus, Judas and Mary Magdalene, relationships that are not described in depth in the Gospels.
The album topped the U.S. Billboard Pop Albums in 1971 and served as a launching pad for numerous . . .
Carrier’s thesis, and it’s not just his, he just did the first major peer-reviewed major book on it, is that there was no “Jesus himself.” That matters to a lot of people that believe God came down from above and incarnated as a man, then was sacrificed, literally. There are a few variations on what that did, what “atonement” means, if he’s coming back, etc. but all of that matters to many of the people that are affiliated with a Christian church. I’m not going to try to defend them or explain that right now.
This is an entertaining way to absorb the scholarship. It has a storyline of getting together some comic book enthusiasts to decide what Batman works are “canonical”, another one in the future when Batman is an actual religion, and the scholars being interviewed in between those scenes.
Okay, no argument.
The point I’m trying to make is the importance of acknowledging the Human Mind ~ Physical Reality divide.
And there you have it - keep the mind game going, as we watch ourselves destroy the biosphere we depend on, as science get’s reduced to irrelevance, beyond processing data and creating “better” weapons.
Is it any wonder some have little but contempt left for “theology” (and most of today’s philosophy for that matter.)/
I know.
It’s a movie that draws people in with an entertaining way to show how myths develop then has actual science in the form of historiography.
Okay
Historiography is the study of the history of history, focusing on how historical interpretations, methodologies, and perspectives change over time
Which belongs to the realm of our “Mindscape.”
Which is different from biology and evolution, which belongs to the physical realm.
There is a line in there worth understanding and respecting.
And that line has nothing to do with the question of Jesus being a real person or not
That’s being silly, of course it does.
Along with most everything else we think about.
This is why it’s impossible to have a conversation with you. You bring your human mindscape - physical reality divide to every topic.
What is it about a fundamental concept, out of which all else flows, that you don’t get?
You remind me of folks used to complain that I always dragged AGW in every conversation as thought everything in our lives revolves around weather.
Well guess what, climate does impinge on every f’n thing we do in this planet, for better or for worse. Whether people are too lazy to recognize it or not.
Without getting clear on the Physical Reality ~ Human Mind divide - our thoughts remain a muddle.
Like we gotta get the map pointed in the right direction before we can start making sense of it.
What is it about any given sentence can’t contain every required concept within it, that you don’t get?
Right. I bet. It’s you.
How in the world did we figure out germ theory and put people on the moon without you?
We need both map makers and explorers who charge into the unknown. We are born on a ship that is already sailing and have to figure out to navigate.
Sorry dude, No time for that.
You are missing the point again.
IT HAS TO DO WITH HOW WE THINK ABOUT JESUS AND RELIGION.