Is the world perfect?

Something that just bothered me is all:

Yeah, it’s tough not to judge the lower stages. You really gotta grow into deep Yellow and Turquoise in order to be able to look upon Blue and the other stages without animosity. At Turquoise there is a deep realization that everything within reality is necessary and perfect. When you realize that, you see that every person is precisely where they must be. It makes no sense any longer to blame or criticize people for their ignorance because they know not what they do and they cannot help themselves.

The only way to attain peace for yourself is to totally drop all judgment of people and reality. And this can only happen by becoming conscious of the truth of nonduality. You have to realize that self/other are literally identical.

If you accomplish that, you will be left with unconditional love for all. You will see the world the way God sees it: perfect as it is.

One of the biggest obstacles to enlightenment is giving up all your judgments, demonizations, and criticisms of reality.

Imagine being unable to judge anyone or anything ever again. Such a notion scares most people. Unconditional love is very radical. The ego cannot stand it. It’s too dangerous from the ego’s perspective.

At the deepest levels of nonduality all action is pointless. You could just shoot yourself and it would be okay. It’s all perfect. Teaching is pointless of course. But in practice you will probably just carry on with life, for shits and giggles, and probably teach.

The world cannot be improved in any way at all. It is an Absolute singularity, and everything is already contained within it for eternity. But this is not something that can be explained, and it certainly sits outside of Spiral Dynamics so I don’t even talk about it. You will only discover this for yourself, at the very deepest levels of nondual consciousness. At which point, you will no longer need me or anyone else to guide you.

It’s based on this: and this is the thread:

I’ve heard it said: “If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.”

That doesn’t seem perfect to me at first glance.

No, natural selection does not select for perfection. It selects for functionality, which is a little bit different.

IMO, perfection in a dynamic (unbalanced) system is impossible. It’s what keeps the universe striving for “movement in the direction of greatest satisfaction.”

Perfection is “stasis”, or “in perfect balance”, which IMO, existed prior to the BB until “a symmetry breaking event” tore the whole thing apart into a state of utter chaos.

Only when the whole was disturbed, did the mathematical values and functions become individually causal to individual dynamic behaviors.

Perhaps can be compared to a perfectly still lake and an avalanche plunges down a mountain into the tranquility, creating chaotic wave interferences, which eventually tend to mathematically resettle into a temporary stillness (perfection) until disturbed again…?

Second Law of Thermodynamics?

I can’t find a citation, but I found a few people who quoted this. I know it’s in the teachings somehow because I’ve heard similar sentiments. But, don’t trust me, think for yourself, that’s the point.

“Believe nothing, no matter who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and own common sense.” --Buddha


TimB, at first glance, I read

“If you meet the Buddha on the road, you found road kill.”

Until my eye’s caught up with your words. No offense to the Buddha, but I think it would even make him crack a smile.


Incidentally, in my neck of the woods fresh road kill, (of the deer kind) get’s muscled into the back of the pick’em up - and taken home to butcher and eat.

It’s even legal these days. Way back I was the ‘recipient’ of one myself, heavy little buggers, nearly busted my gut getting her into the Brat I owned at the time, back then it wasn’t legal yet, so it had the sweet tinge of poaching attached to it. Though it was someone in front of me who did the kill’n, it was me doing the profiting.

These days, my neighbors have been hitting the jackpot last one maybe a month ago. How do I find out? My doggie starts coming home with fresh bones and it ain’t hunt’n season. :slight_smile:

Just saying life in the outback. Ain’t perfect, but it’s pretty dang good. :wink:

I don’t think people are getting at the main point of the OP.

I don’t think people are getting at the main point of the OP.
You should be used to that by now.

Write pretty much said there’s no such thing as perfection.

And CC seems pretty content with getting close to perfection (oddly enuf with road kill).

Then there’s the thought that if you attain perfection, then that should be the end for you.

So the answers to the topic question “Is the world perfect?”:

  • Hell no. It's impossible.
  • No, but close counts!
  • No, and we probably don't want to know if it ever could be (perfect).

I feel like I would need at least a basic understanding of Spiral Dymamics to even imagine how to comment on this. But I’d never heard of it before now, and there doesn’t seem to be a way to nutshell it.

So the only comment I can make is based on what the OP says … and I’m not quite sure what it means. So, four things:

:heavy_check_mark: As long as anyone or anything suffers, no, the world isn’t perfect.

:heavy_check_mark: Isn’t “perfect” kind of a subjective moral opinion? Who or what could define the world as “perfect?”

:heavy_check_mark: “You will see the world the way God sees it: perfect as it is.” Which God sees the world as perfect? Certainly not the God of Abraham. He sees it as fallen and plans to destroy it. In some interpretations of Christianity, the world is currently under the dominion of Satan.

:heavy_check_mark: “One of the biggest obstacles to enlightenment is giving up all your judgments, demonizations, and criticisms of reality. Imagine being unable to judge anyone or anything ever again.” I find this troubling for the same reasons I find incorrect applications of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Mindfulness Meditation troubling. It’s possible to be too goddamn chill. Accepting reality is one thing; deciding it’s just fine as-is, turned inward, means there’s no reason for improvement or growth; turned outward, means there’s no reason for empathy, no wrongs worth righting, no justice to seek. It would be a horrible thing if it caught on.


Tee, that’s good. But Tim takes home the big teddy bear. Concise, spot on summary.

Oh and Tim started it with the road kill,

oh wait, that was my imagination,

well he started my imagination going.

I’m not sure if you can be yellow according to their dynamics model.

But what I think he means by perfect is that there is nothing wrong, but even that isn’t really accurate. Sure outside the human perspective things just “are” and there is no right and wrong. But humans can’t live like that or they would perish. Plus I think it is ironic that he is making this statement without knowing how much he benefits from everyone else not following it.

Plus I think it is ironic that he is making this statement without knowing how much he benefits from everyone else not following it.
That is an excellent insight. The philosopher can't sit around staring at his navel all day if no one is bringing in the harvest or at least foraging for some berries.

I mean I listened to the audio on the link Tee provided (though to be honest the site itself looks questionable). He mentioned Zen monks saying how you are the space between thoughts and not the thoughts themselves or the responses, but I don’t think so. I mean just because people are a certain way or their personally is so doesn’t mean they have to be on all the time, it’s more like how they respond to the world around them. I wouldn’t call the “real you” the space between those moments.

“I wouldn’t call the “real you” the space between those moments.”

I agree.

The third tier really reveals the apparent ‘individual’ who could be first, second or third tier as a mere idea, or just another thought form or concept.. the ‘skin encapsulated ego, the separate self, doesn’t really exist…

Even in the first tier, there is no-one there to ‘become’ third tier, just floating ideas

According to the third tier, the whole mind map is a flow of the whole universe

Fortunately though, the ground of being is love and peace, so we aren’t merely a weird universe having a weird mindmap in a psychodrama for no good reason…

The comments are full of stuff like this but to me it just sounds doubtful. There is “someone” in the sense of a body, as for the man behind the curtain I’m not sure.

But as for the perfect bit I don’t know, I mean perfect as in “nothing wrong?” because if so that is true. But it would be more accurate to say that the universe isn’t perfect it just is.