Is the republic the best form of government?

Is the republic the best form of government against theocracy, and for political, civil and economic freedom?

According to Montesquieu, there are 3 forms of government:

He defined three types of government: republican, monarchical, and despotic. In the first the people is possessed of the supreme power; in a monarchy a single person governs by fixed and established laws; in a despotic government a single person directs everything by his own will and caprice.9 Republican government can be subdivided into aristocracy and democracy, the former being a State in which the supreme power is in the hands of a part of the people, not, as in a democracy, in the body of the people. In a despotic government there can be no check to the power of the prince, no limitations to safeguard the individual—the idea of the separation of powers in any form is foreign to despotic governments. In an aristocracy also, though it be a moderate government, the legislative and executive authority are in the same hands. (

I know that there are some republics which are theocratic (the Islamic Republic of Iran), or some republics which are dictatorial (the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea), or some monarchies which are democratic (the United Kingdom).

But I feel that overall, historically and theoretically, it is the republic which is an important component against theocracy, and for political, civil and economic freedom.

Republicanism was the ideology of the American Revolution, and as such it became the source of much of what we Americans still believe, the source of many of our noblest ideals and most persistent values.

Wood, G. S. (1990). Classical Republicanism and the American Revolution. Chi.-Kent L. Rev., 66, 13.

I think these labels are very general descriptors that lose much of their meaning in the details. For example, the U.S. republic is a democracy. Well, it could be a democracy but it isn’t.
I don’t know why you think a republic is best against a theocracy while the U.S. clearly demonstrates a crumbling wall separating church and state.

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But there it is because Christian nationalism lobbied the political parties, to have their values represented and implemented by politicians.

Not so much lobbied as usurped. By “preaching” from the pulpit and telling their flock who to vote for, millions of people believe Trump is sent by god. The religious right spent years putting their puppet politicians and judges into power. It’s as if at least half of our species is incapable of critical thinking. And if that remains the case, then democracy is eventually doomed.

Have you noticed that religious people can threaten you with death and agony in hell, but if an atheists threatens you in any way it is a crime.

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Yes, way too soft on terminology. Through manipulation of the system, we are under minority rule.

The matter is that the religious groups are organized.

Unbelievers and Secularists are not.

[Paris, 8-9 December, Laics of all Countries Unite! | Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain - CEMB]

Not sure I agree with that word either. It implies people are working together. Mostly, it’s a whipping of anger and rancor with no idea who is picking up on it. Gerrymandering makes it so voters just keep voting like always and they draw lines around them to guarantee a majority in a district. It doesn’t help that Democrats concentrate themselves in urban areas.

Here’s how they split up Austin, TX

I’ve noticed and Dominionists are the worst concerning attempting to take over the government.

Did you know there is a video synthesis of this event?


(I don’t know why, if I directly copy-paste the link, it displays that the video is not available.)

[@citizenschallengev4 I acknowledged your frustration that some of the documents we share are in a language (French) many users can’t read on this website. On the other hand, I feel it is justified by the fact that France proposes an approach to secularism which is radically different from those of the Anglo-saxon countries. And so I think it is important that there is this dialogue between the two approaches, although it implies that many things are in French. Personally, I try to provide the English translation each time a passage is quoted.]

Are there some churches in the US which are not nationalist, fundamentalist, etc.? And are they popular?

Yes, they have assumed infinite permission from a higher power.
They become impervious to critique or suggestion.
Negotiation with different perspectives is strictly forbidden.

Yes, there are. They are popular in some areas. For example, here in Charlotte, NC there is a Presbyrerian church that some of my friends attend. They allow gays and believe abortion to be a very personal choice.

I have noticed generally that the less religious a church gets, the better it gets. Like when the pope tries to relax some of the church’s hatred of gays. The strict Catholics get mad at him.

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You are so patient, linking each concept to documents for explanations, thank you very much :grinning: I did not even know the “moral majority” was a proper noun referring to an association, I thought it was a common noun…

Know very very little about religion in the US. It seems that there are tones of different Churches, and sub-religions (?) of Christianism there. Is this correct?

Not even exactly sure what is Evangelicalism, compared to Protestantism.

Here in Western-South Europe, it is pretty simple: Catholicism. That’s it. IMK, maybe some are more fundamentalist, or traditionalist than others.

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Note sure whether it is not infringing your privacy but, how did you come to humanism? You used to be a Christian too?

(So of course I understand if you do not want to disclose on this publicly. Sorry if that is the case for the question)

Because in my impression, due to the culture of state secularism (laïcité) here in France, it appears to me most French people are atheists, or at least they somehow acquired atheist culture very very young for most French people being educated in public, atheist and Républicaine schools.

Discussing with you guys, I feel it is completely different in the US. It’s like people learn to be atheist, develop their atheism, individually, sometimes late in life

In France, even Catholic families and children, because they themselves will often go to public schools (they can go to private Catholic schools, but it is not as if there were tones of private Catholic schools, and many of the best schools are public ones) they will be raised in an atheist culture, they can not but be touched by it. They know exactly what it is. They need to refuse consciously those values, but they needs to live with them.

A significant part of the French environment is atheist (the city offices, the many state-owned (and therefore laïque/républicain) medias, the extremely centralized school system, the (huge) civil service system), is atheist. So people can not but acquire it naturally/passively

I have no problem describing my turn away from my family indoctrination to Christianity.

I was raised by wonderful parents who took me to Christian churches. That became my default worldview.

But as I experienced life I tried to grow as a Christian. My personality puts truth above all else. I’m an engineer. I solved real problems. As I went through extremely tough times in my life, I read the Bible and prayed to god. A serious reading of the Bible was disturbing. Inconsistencies, the many cruelties of this loving god, my experience with prayer, the lack of witnessing anything miraculous in the world, hundreds of thousands of children dying each year from diarrhea, and countless more facts created a strong suspicion in me that god was just another Santa Claus or tooth fairy. I grew up. I used reason to run my life. And then, my life improved.

I also found that there are billions of people like me. I was able to look back at my life and see how dumb religion looks from the “outside.” I even got “unbaptised” at a CFI meeting as I walked by a guy with a blow dryer pointed at me. I started having fun. Fortunately, my wife shared this evolution with me. We are very happy. And retired! :heart_eyes:


The 3rd largest church, United Methodists, just ended a decades long battle along these lines. It resulted in a split with liberals faring better. One fourth of the UMC churches are leaving the denomination so they can practice their conservative values

When you were still a Christian, did you feel that this Christian culture was confusing in how you should behave?

Philosophers also solve real problems… Secularism, atheism, democracy, republicanism, individualism, freedom, are all directly related to philosophy.

The first liberation (from the Church, from monarchy) in Europe started when classical Greek philosophy was discovered by elites in Italy, France, the Netherlands.

Most intellectuals who introduced the values implemented by the founding fathers were philosophers. Thomas Jefferson was impregnated by classical philosophy, and was a direct correspondent with many philosophers of his time.

People who only care about “solving real problems” were stalinists in USSR dictatorship. And that did not end well.