Mriana, Mankind does better in warm weather. That is a fact. Civilizations don’t advance in cold weather and that is a fact. Just check out the mini-Ice Age in Europe. In the Mid-West we got one hay crop per year. Every now and then we had a good year and got two crops. That was nice. In California here they are getting seven crops per year. All due to the warmer weather.
@MikeYohe Again, it seems to me that you do not want to read what it says, because in this type of warmer weather and rising sea levels, humans will not thrive. In fact, people are currently dying from extreme heat and we aren’t just talking about a few days, but many days of extreme heat. I can also tell you didn’t read any of the links I posted. That said, it seems worthless to post any more for you or even discuss the subject any more with you, because you prefer to not listen or even read the science on the matter.
Mriana, you talk about extreme weather. Maybe it is extreme weather to you when coming out of the intermediate part of a 100,000-year Climate Cycle. The intermediate part of the cycle is a period only lasting about 12,000 years. It is the calmest and most stable weather of the whole Climate Cycle. It is because of the stable weather that mankind has been able to advance. Note, we left the Intermediate Cycle about 5 years ago now.
Use logic here.
When we entered into the Intermediate Cycle. What happened. We had several cold spells. So, it may be reasonable to expect when leaving the Intermediate Cycle, we would also experience several spells. But instead of being cold, they would be hot.
What is earth’s weather like overall. In 2017 it was 58.62 F.
For the big picture we have to use the Milankovitch cycles and 800,000-years of Ice Core data.
This is the logic. We have 16O water and 18O water - The process of differentiation between heavy and light water molecules is temperature dependent. If the atmosphere is warm, there is more energy available to evaporate and hold the heavier 18O water in the atmosphere, so the snow that falls on the polar ice sheets is relatively higher in 18O. When the atmosphere is cold, the amount of energy is less, and so less 18O makes it to the poles to be turned into glacial ice. We can compare the amount of 18O in different parts of the ice core to see how the atmosphere’s temperature—the climate—has changed.
Next we compare this with the Proxy Data. Proxy data is information about the climate that accumulates through natural phenomena. For example, crocodile fossils in North Dakota and glacier stones South Dakota is proxy data.
Notice that the Earth’s climate has not been stable! Sometimes the temperature is higher than it is today. Most of the time the climate is much colder than today’s, however: the most common value is around -13 F. On average, the earth’s temperature between 25,000 and 100,000 years ago was about 42.8 degrees Fahrenheit lower than it is today. These changes can be double-checked by measuring the temperature of the ice in the cores directly. Ice that is 30,000 years old is indeed colder than the ice made today, just as the isotope data predicts.
What is earth’s weather like overall. In 2017 it was 58.62 F.
In the last couple million year the world was cold; average temperatures were around -13 F. Such conditions allow ice sheets to grow—much of North America, Asia and Europe were covered under mile-thick ice
Extreme weather can really get bad. What we are talking about is life on earth existing only at the equator. I would rather have a flooding Mississippi River than a frozen Mississippi River.
Point being. Do you want to talk about Climate Change or Weather Change? The difference is in time period being looked at.
you are soooooooo self deluded.
Guess you aren’t aware of all the advances the little so-called little ice age triggered, (mikie it was NO ice age, just like Santa at the North Pole doesn’t really live at the North Pole) The cooling back then was a fraction of blip from the real thing.
Beyond that it is simple insanity to pretend that global warming is benign or holybullshit desirable - Mike makes himself blind to the fact that we live and thrive within a very narrow range of condition. We are heading into global conditions our self-centered society is absolutely incapable of addressing - especially with self-certain greed driven idiots running around saying “Cooling Bad, Warming Good!” Grow up already for christ sake!
https://eos.org/articles/the-little-ice-age-wasnt-global-but-current-climate-change-is
https://qz.com/1554962/what-17th-centurys-little-ice-age-teaches-us-on-climate-change/
That idiot logic on display at #309584 makes me think of the title of this thread, how dare he spread such malicious falsehoods. But, then as the Trumpkins are showing America and the world amoral and immoral do as they please.
As for the sober crowd out there try an experiment. Google, “how hgher temperatures are impacting crops.”
https://insideclimatenews.org › news › rising-temperature-agriculture-crop-…
Aug 21, 2017 - For every degree Celsius that the Earth warms, corn yields will go down an average of 7.4 percent, according to the study, which focused on the effects of rising temperatures and did not directly examine other influences related to climate change. Wheat yields similarly will drop …
https://insideclimatenews.org › news › climate-change-research-food-securi…
Jun 11, 2018 - Two new studies looking at corn and vegetables warn of a rising risk of food … most produced and traded crop, to project how climate change will affect it across … in corn yield depending on how high global temperatures rise.
https://iopscience.iop.org › article › pdf
by S Siebert - 2014 - Cited by 23 - Related articles
findings on the impact of heat on crop yield have been made based on experiments in … High temperatures affect crops in different ways and cause decreased.
theconversation.com › climate-change-is-affecting-crop-yields-and-reduci…Jul 9, 2019 - As climate change alters temperature and rainfall patterns, yields of some cropsare increasing while others decline. The net result: less food, …
https://www.sciencedirect.com › science › article › pii
by JL Hatfield - 2015 - Cited by 516 - Related articles
Temperature stresses on annual and perennial crops have an impact on all phases of plant growth and development. … The effects of temperature extremes on the plant could be from the combined effect of the warm air temperatures and the increasing atmospheric demand.https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Climate_change_and_agriculture
Climate change induced by increasing greenhouse gases is likely to affect crops differently from region to region. For example, average crop yield is expected to …
https://www.pnas.org › content
by C Zhao - 2017 - Cited by 185 - Related articles
Aug 15, 2017 - Assessing the impact of global temperature increase on production of these crops is therefore critical to maintaining global food supply, but …https://19january2017snapshot.epa.gov › climate-impacts › climate-impact…
Jump to Impacts on Crops - For any particular crop, the effect of increased temperature will depend on the crop’s optimal temperature for growth …You’ve visited this page 2 times. Last visit: 5/11/18
https://www.climatehubs.oce.usda.gov › growing-seasons-changing-climate
Crops and livestock will be subjected to increasing temperatures, increasing CO2 , … Management practices that can ease the detrimental impacts of seasonal …https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu › climate-change-food-agriculture
Jul 25, 2018 - But climate change will not only affect crops—it will also impact meat … When temperatures rise, the warmer air holds more moisture and can …
Hell 25 feet, 25 centimeters, what’s the difference when honesty doesn’t mean a damned thing anymore.
There’s also this gem:
On average, the earth’s temperature between 25,000 and 100,000 years ago was about 42.8 degrees Fahrenheit lower than it is today.Would love to see the study he dug that one out of.
@Citizenschallenge-v.3 that’s why I decided to stop posting links for him to read. He’s not going to read them because he has his mind made up that Climate Change is good for humans- yeah in that it will decrease the population greatly… if anyone survives it.
Link one – President Reagan passed a mandate to respond to human-induced and natural processes of global change by creating a department to coordinate all the government agencies. The government agency failed and just made matters worse.
Obama tried to fix the problem of the public not being able to separate Mother Nature from man-made changes to the weather. Therefore, Global Warming was to be Mother Nature and man-made was to be “Climate Change”. The White House and the IPCC took the lead in this change and the idea was the rest would follow.
What happened was the many government agencies went their own ways. And it just became more confused. The writers on the subjects also went their own ways.
You linked to Reagan’s government page that was trying to explain what Climate Change is.
They say: The impacts of global climate change in the United States are already being felt and are projected to intensify in the future, especially without further action to reduce climate-related risks. As the impacts of climate change grow, Americans face decisions about how to respond.
The reason they have not been able to accomplish their mission in thirty years is number one. They are a government agency. Number two, they do not explain anything in a logical way. They know there is global climate change because it is being felt. No facts and data.
Link two – A governmental report. Sounds good. The logic is that the earth’s surface is heating. And they got the data to prove this. And it is heating fast. Also got the data to prove this. It looks like we are finally going to get somewhere.
This was just the earth’s surface they were able to prove was warming. The next step was to prove the earth’s upper atmospheres were also warming. As the surface warms, it starts warming the upper atmospheres.
A satellite was built that could measure the warming in our upper atmospheres. This was also needed because there are a lot of satellites in space and when the upper atmospheres warm it creates a drag on the satellites causing them to slow down.
The findings of the satellite were surprising. The Earth’s Upper Atmosphere Cooling off Dramatically. New research shows that the outermost layer of the atmosphere will lose 3 percent of its density over the coming decade caused by the cooling.
The data also proved the past data given to computer models was terribly flawed by bias and was of no value.
The thinking now is the coolness from the upper atmosphere will in time cool the earth’s surface.
The good news is as the density declines due to massive atmosphere loss caused by cooling, orbiting satellites experience less drag.
Climate Change is the scientific version of Days of Our Lives.
Link Three – Come on now. Don’t make me comment on trash. Al Gore’s project (Climate Reality) is just like his last five climate movies. A total failure. As link one’s goal was to separate Mother Nature from man-made weather. This site puts Mother Nature as a man-made cause of weather. No morals at all.
Alberta is getting more and more Pine Beetles infesting our forests, killing the trees. They’re coming from B.C. where the climate is warmer because they aren’t getting killed off in the winter like they used to. Every degree warmer gives them a few thousand more square km of habitat.
There are lots of other pests around the world that will decimate crops as the weather changes.
Not just crops, but all life, will have to deal with drought, too much rain, more powerful storms, excess heat/cold, new pests, later/earlier and longer/shorter seasons, more forest fires (on average), and many other fun and interesting problems.
As I’ve said before, I don’t know how many of the details are exactly correct. But we don’t need to know the precise day and time of a disaster to know one is coming and that we have to prepare for it. Ignoring or pretending to not see the problem is completely immoral.
I even shared the Climate Reality link with him and he wasn’t going to read it. He sees no reason in reading reliable sources on the subject.
CC - the earth’s temperature between 25,000 and 100,000 years ago was about 6 oC.
C to F = 42.8
Mriana, have you never followed Climate Change before. The Climate Reality site is a political site.
It starts off with the 97% of climate scientists agree that humans are the cause of Climate Change.
Do you have any idea what that means?
Climate Change is the man-made affects on weather. Therefore, humans are responsible for 100% of Climate Change. Or the above statement would be incorrect. It is like saying someone is 88% pregnant. Why would you do that?
What they are doing by using the 97% is twisting the goals of Reagan and Obama by keeping the people confused. I don’t like disinformation sites like Gore’s site. It is hard enough to separate all the garbage that is out there from the real facts that I feel it is best to stay away from political motivated sites.
3point. I agree with what you are saying. The point I am trying to get across is that it would be better to stay in the Intermediate Cycle forever and not go into the Ice Age.
I miss my fly fishing trips to Red Fish Lake in Idaho. The pine beetles totally devastated the area. Along with the trout getting the swirling disease. I decided to let the area heal for a decade and then think about going back.
Mike be like:
Use logic here.Everybody else be like:
3point. I agree with what you are saying. The point I am trying to get across is that it would be better to stay in the Intermediate Cycle forever and not go into the Ice Age.No. We do not agree.
You absurdly believe that because we don’t have perfect knowledge of what we’re doing, we can sit back and do nothing.
I believe that because we don’t have perfect knowledge we need to do everything in our power to prevent us from killing ourselves and destroying earth’s climate and biological systems.
I miss my fly fishing trips to Red Fish Lake in Idaho. The pine beetles totally devastated the area. Along with the trout getting the swirling disease. I decided to let the area heal for a decade and then think about going back.Dead trees and fish at Red Fish Lake are the canary in the coal mine for what we're doing. How many canaries will you watch die before you realize you're walking into a death-trap?
If those too ignorant to learn were only killing themselves, I’d be sad but would accept their decision, however, they’re dragging the whole planet into an unknown and potentially disastrous future, so I’m mad and don’t accept their decision.
Yea, it makes me feel like I am not invited to your click because you all think the same and I think differently.
3point, some scientists have claimed, and nobody has challenged them that it is possible because of the higher CO2 in the atmosphere that we may have extended the time before we head into the cold part of the cycle by 1K to 3K years. That is a good thing.
Now you say that we don’t agree that for every degree warmer the beetles can expand. And that we will have to deal with drought and changes in rain. OK, I don’t understand why we can’t agree on that.
It is obvious that if you think that way that you are dealing with a good versus evil thought pattern and not with reality. I going to stick to the facts.
Yea, it makes me feel like I am not invited to your click because you all think the same and I think differently.We don't "think differently", we have considered as much data as we can, although each of us is different to some degree in that, and used our powers of reason, and yes, we were brought up in an environment that valued the modern knowledge and respected science, but we also know how to question authority and make sure they are not hiding anything. After all that, we came to a conclusion, which is contingent on future data that could come to light.
It’s not a clique. Anyone is invited. Like anything else, there are rules.
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*clique. (But “You people are all alike,” and linking I guess to a photo of Nazis?? … is actually pretty cliche … which is why I’m mentioning it.)
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I’m curious. Do you believe that we breathe oxygen? That the earth is round and orbits the sun? That plants use energy from the sun in a process called photosynthesis?
I’m only half-joking. In the absence of a need to believe that science is a conspiracy to turn people away from God (I’m assuming you don’t believe that), I fail to understand why you can believe scientific consensus on most things, but you dig in your heels on this.
Or maybe the fact that most people believe those things means we are all Nazis?