E.T. asking if anybody is out there?

So I think that it is quite possible that we may someday (if we have not already) receive a signal from another civilization, although that civilization may no longer even exist.
Maybe but even nuclear power sources only last a century at most and electronics decay over time. I doubt any signalling device would extend a civilizations reach more than a thousand years beyond their demise. What? Photons do not "decay" over time. Although peacegirl, in another thread, thinks that they do. A powerful radio or optical signal sent will far outlive the sender and will go on and on for billions of years, unless absorbed or deflected by some body. It's why we can see galaxies dating back nearly to the Big Bang.

Pec, he said electronics decay over time. if you doubt that try to fire up your 30 year old computer. As for signals, the electromagnetic energy we detect from billions of light years away is a tad stronger than the puny radio and television waves we’re leaking into space, and even stronger than anything we could cobble together to broadcast our presence to the rest of the galaxy. Then there is the problem of the receiving end needing the right equipment to capture the signal. How would they, or we, know what to look for?

Pec, he said electronics decay over time. if you doubt that try to fire up your 30 year old computer. As for signals, the electromagnetic energy we detect from billions of light years away is a tad stronger than the puny radio and television waves we're leaking into space, and even stronger than anything we could cobble together to broadcast our presence to the rest of the galaxy. Then there is the problem of the receiving end needing the right equipment to capture the signal. How would they, or we, know what to look for?
Yes, electronics decay over time. So what? I don't see what this has to do with signaling over vast distances. Obviously, any signal sent will be sent from electronics that, by definition, have not decayed. Yes, our TV and radio signals leaked into space are most likely undetectable after a few dozen light years at best. But again, this isn't what the FRB stuff is about. The claim is not about leaked signals, but signals that were possibly deliberately sent, involving intense energy output that would be detectable over vast distances. Likely these bursts have a prosaic explanation, but in principle it is possible that they are signals from ETs. We'll have to wait for more data.
You think you're a buzz kill? You haven't mentioned that we are separated from other potential intelligent civilizations not only in distance but in time. In addition to the incredibly unlikely events that led to intelligent life on Earth, it took 3.5 billion years to get to this point. There could have been a civilization in our galaxy (run with the thought experiment here) where intelligent dinosaurs arose, flourished and died out millions of years ago. Any signal they sent our way would have passed undetected. We could conceivably be one of the early civilizations in our galaxy, which means there isn't a receiver within shouting distance. I'll take a pitcher of that Roman Ale.
I agree that timing is probably the biggest limiting factor, but the probability or improbability of contact depends, heavily, I think on 1) how common Life is in the universe and 2) how advanced technological societies can become. If a society were technologically advanced enough, and also were motivated to contact others, they could likely be able to send a signal, even from their galaxy, to other galaxies. (there are lots of galaxies). But yes, timing is critical. It might be naïve to think that even if we listened for 10,000 years, we would happen to pick up a signal, as 10,000 years is a pitifully small amount of time in the grand scheme.

I just reminded myself of a religious joke.
A man spoke with God. He asked “How long is a million years, to you, Lord?” God said “A million years is like a second to me.” The man asked “God, how much is a million dollars to you?” God said “To me, a million dollars is like a penny.” The man said “God, would you give me a penny?” God said “Sure!.. just a second.”

Pec, he said electronics decay over time. if you doubt that try to fire up your 30 year old computer. As for signals, the electromagnetic energy we detect from billions of light years away is a tad stronger than the puny radio and television waves we're leaking into space, and even stronger than anything we could cobble together to broadcast our presence to the rest of the galaxy. Then there is the problem of the receiving end needing the right equipment to capture the signal. How would they, or we, know what to look for?
Yes, electronics decay over time. So what? I don't see what this has to do with signaling over vast distances. Nice job of moving the goalposts on your mistake regarding Mac's post.
So I think that it is quite possible that we may someday (if we have not already) receive a signal from another civilization, although that civilization may no longer even exist.
Maybe but even nuclear power sources only last a century at most and electronics decay over time. I doubt any signalling device would extend a civilizations reach more than a thousand years beyond their demise. What? Photons do not "decay" over time. Although peacegirl, in another thread, thinks that they do. A powerful radio or optical signal sent will far outlive the sender and will go on and on for billions of years, unless absorbed or deflected by some body. It's why we can see galaxies dating back nearly to the Big Bang. Yes the photons would go on for billions of years but they would be present at any given point in space only for the length of time that their source was working. An EM signal generated on a planet 1,000 light years from us would travel on almost forever or until all its energy was absorbed by something but if the generator died out after performing it's function for 100 years the signal would only be detectable here or at any other point in space for a 100 year period of time.
So I think that it is quite possible that we may someday (if we have not already) receive a signal from another civilization, although that civilization may no longer even exist.
Maybe but even nuclear power sources only last a century at most and electronics decay over time. I doubt any signalling device would extend a civilizations reach more than a thousand years beyond their demise. What? Photons do not "decay" over time. Although peacegirl, in another thread, thinks that they do. A powerful radio or optical signal sent will far outlive the sender and will go on and on for billions of years, unless absorbed or deflected by some body. It's why we can see galaxies dating back nearly to the Big Bang. Yes the photons would go on for billions of years but they would be present at any given point in space only for the length of time that their source was working. An EM signal generated on a planet 1,000 light years from us would travel on almost forever or until all its energy was absorbed by something but if the generator died out after performing it's function for 100 years the signal would only be detectable here or at any other point in space for a 100 year period of time.
Pec, he said electronics decay over time. if you doubt that try to fire up your 30 year old computer. As for signals, the electromagnetic energy we detect from billions of light years away is a tad stronger than the puny radio and television waves we're leaking into space, and even stronger than anything we could cobble together to broadcast our presence to the rest of the galaxy. Then there is the problem of the receiving end needing the right equipment to capture the signal. How would they, or we, know what to look for?
Yes, electronics decay over time. So what? I don't see what this has to do with signaling over vast distances. Nice job of moving the goalposts on your mistake regarding Mac's post. Nice job of accusing me of something I didn't do, and a mistake I did not make.
So I think that it is quite possible that we may someday (if we have not already) receive a signal from another civilization, although that civilization may no longer even exist.
Maybe but even nuclear power sources only last a century at most and electronics decay over time. I doubt any signalling device would extend a civilizations reach more than a thousand years beyond their demise. What? Photons do not "decay" over time. Although peacegirl, in another thread, thinks that they do. A powerful radio or optical signal sent will far outlive the sender and will go on and on for billions of years, unless absorbed or deflected by some body. It's why we can see galaxies dating back nearly to the Big Bang. Yes the photons would go on for billions of years but they would be present at any given point in space only for the length of time that their source was working. An EM signal generated on a planet 1,000 light years from us would travel on almost forever or until all its energy was absorbed by something but if the generator died out after performing it's function for 100 years the signal would only be detectable here or at any other point in space for a 100 year period of time. Of course that's true, if the generator dies out. It's also plausible to suppose that a sufficiently advanced race would keep their equipment and signaling going for an arbitrarily long length of time, maybe many centuries. This supposes that at least some species can build and maintain a highly advanced technological civilization over centuries or millenniums, or even would want to send out signals. We don't know, anything is moot speculation. That's why we can't say anything one way or the other about these FRBs until we get more data. They're quite interesting so far.

Oh my, yes, let’s never engage in reasonable speculation. Let’s never use our human ability to imagine what might be. Let’s be good hardcore skeptics who never consider any possibility other than what the data, verifiably, indicates.
If we never have a willingness to consider what might be, we will never be able to formulate exploratory hypotheses, on which data can be collected. This increases our odds that we will never be mistaken. Unfortunately, I think that it also increases our odds of rarely learning anything new and particularly interesting.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that any intelligent life “out there” probably knows about earth and its inhabitants and has wisely decided to stay as as far away as possible from us and never let us know they exist, obliterating all signals?
Lois

Has it ever occurred to anyone that any intelligent life "out there" probably knows about earth and its inhabitants and has wisely decided to stay as as far away as possible from us and never let us know they exist, obliterating all signals? Lois
Yes, that is my favourite solution to the Fermi Paradox], "Where are they?" It is called the Zoo Hypothesis]. We are in quarantine until we learn to behave ourselves and are fit to join civilized society. Mahatma Gandhi was asked by an American reporter what he thought of Western Civilization, he replied "I think that would be a very good idea."
Has it ever occurred to anyone that any intelligent life "out there" probably knows about earth and its inhabitants and has wisely decided to stay as as far away as possible from us and never let us know they exist, obliterating all signals? Lois
Yes, that is my favourite solution to the Fermi Paradox], "Where are they?" It is called the Zoo Hypothesis]. We are in quarantine until we learn to behave ourselves and are fit to join civilized society. Mahatma Gandhi was asked by an American reporter what he thought of Western Civilization, he replied "I think that would be a very good idea." Love the quote! Lois
Has it ever occurred to anyone that any intelligent life "out there" probably knows about earth and its inhabitants and has wisely decided to stay as as far away as possible from us and never let us know they exist, obliterating all signals? Lois
That might explain the silence from some civilizations but all civilizations most likely pass through a period like ours where they are indiscriminately broadcasting signals into space and just like email once its out there you can delete it or call it back. If at some point must civilizations become more discriminating in what and who they broadcast to then of course that would decrease the amount of time they are detectable to neophytes like us and therefor decrease the number of intelligent civilizations that we would be able to detect.
Has it ever occurred to anyone that any intelligent life "out there" probably knows about earth and its inhabitants and has wisely decided to stay as as far away as possible from us and never let us know they exist, obliterating all signals? Lois
That might explain the silence from some civilizations but all civilizations most likely pass through a period like ours where they are indiscriminately broadcasting signals into space and just like email once its out there you can delete it or call it back. If at some point must civilizations become more discriminating in what and who they broadcast to then of course that would decrease the amount of time they are detectable to neophytes like us and therefor decrease the number of intelligent civilizations that we would be able to detect. The threshold would be the speed of light and how long it takes the signals to arrive. If the civilization was able to stop broadcasting longer ago than they are away from us in light years, that would explain things nicely. But how long have humans on Earth been so bad that no-one else wants to have any contact with us.
Has it ever occurred to anyone that any intelligent life "out there" probably knows about earth and its inhabitants and has wisely decided to stay as as far away as possible from us and never let us know they exist, obliterating all signals? Lois
That might explain the silence from some civilizations but all civilizations most likely pass through a period like ours where they are indiscriminately broadcasting signals into space and just like email once its out there you can delete it or call it back. If at some point must civilizations become more discriminating in what and who they broadcast to then of course that would decrease the amount of time they are detectable to neophytes like us and therefor decrease the number of intelligent civilizations that we would be able to detect. The threshold would be the speed of light and how long it takes the signals to arrive. If the civilization was able to stop broadcasting longer ago than they are away from us in light years, that would explain things nicely. But how long have humans on Earth been so bad that no-one else wants to have any contact with us. About 6 or 7 million years, I reckon. ;) Lois
The threshold would be the speed of light and how long it takes the signals to arrive. If the civilization was able to stop broadcasting longer ago than they are away from us in light years, that would explain things nicely. But how long have humans on Earth been so bad that no-one else wants to have any contact with us.
Here is another way to look at it. Each civilization will be broadcasting a signal that has a length in years. If a civilization broadcasts for a thousand years than its signal is a thousand light years in length. If we happen to be listening when that thousand year long signal passes over us then we will hear it. If the civilization only broadcasts for 40 years then the signal is only 40 years long and that gives us less time in which to hear it. If it passed over us a 100 or 1000 or 1 million years ago or perhaps a million years in the future ( if we are no longer around) then we may never hear it.
The threshold would be the speed of light and how long it takes the signals to arrive. If the civilization was able to stop broadcasting longer ago than they are away from us in light years, that would explain things nicely. But how long have humans on Earth been so bad that no-one else wants to have any contact with us.
Here is another way to look at it. Each civilization will be broadcasting a signal that has a length in years. If a civilization broadcasts for a thousand years than its signal is a thousand light years in length. If we happen to be listening when that thousand year long signal passes over us then we will hear it. If the civilization only broadcasts for 40 years then the signal is only 40 years long and that gives us less time in which to hear it. If it passed over us a 100 or 1000 or 1 million years ago or perhaps a million years in the future ( if we are no longer around) then we may never hear it. If the creatures that sent the signal were destroyed or self destructed after sendng the signal, we'd never know it and we'd never know they had ever existed, would we? Nor would we know where the signal might have come from. Lois

There are vast problems with trying to communicate with an alien civilization that make it likely if they were beaming signals at us, we’d not know it. For starters, there’s if anyone else has noticed “the water hole.” That’s a band of frequencies related to water that are relatively clear in the EM spectrum. Of course, the reason we notice this has to do with the way we interpret the spectrum and label frequencies. A species which doesn’t have our same concept of time or use base 10 mathematics might not notice the clear portion of the spectrum, or if they’re not a water based species, they might not put the same importance on water that we do.
Then there’s the method of encoding. Even if they’re broadcasting analog signals, we’d have a tough time deciphering it without having identical hardware on our end. Which we wouldn’t necessarily have. Perhaps their microphones and speakers work differently than ours, capture different frequencies or emit different frequencies. Then we get to trying to figure out whatever it was that they sent us. Was it a picture? Sound recording? Would their first words to us translate as “Greetings from the people of Greelax.”? Or would it be “This is the High Priest of Frombulitz, sending a prayer to our god, Snarkelfitz.”? Assuming the basic concepts of self-identity exist amongst them in the same manner that they do amongst us. If you’ve read the book Solaris (forget about the Clooney movie, its got a different focus than the book), you’ll know that the idea behind it was to try to truly imagine what it might be like to encounter an alien intelligence which thought in utterly different ways than us. Its difficult, and I have to imagine that if we ever do encounter sentient aliens, it’ll be a long time before we’re able to even work out the basics of simple communication with one another, because of how different we think.