October 11, 2019 at 10:49 am#310172 Blaire
The link below is from Unbelievable/Sherlock/Justin Brierely. It is a debate with Sir Roger Penrose and William Lane Craig from October 5th.
Please share your thoughts.
I’ve moved this because it doesn’t belong under science - it belongs under philosophy, psychology, humanism and our struggles to make sense of our lives.
It provided me with another great vehicle to try and explain myself.
OCTOBER 15, 2019
Demystifying Roger Penrose’s Three Mysteries of Reality
In a recent discussion about Sir Roger Penrose’s ‘3 realms’ view of reality, Penrose wanted to set the stage by listing his Three Mysteries:
- “Mysteries (of) the physical world, physical stuff.”
- Mystery of the “mental world that’s our experiences, consciousness, feelings about things.”
- Mystery of “what you call, the world of mathematical abstraction”
(link to transcribed full quotes.)
Those points stopped me right there. Before continuing I needed to be able to enunciate why I found the above so inadequate for such an exploration of reality.
Here I take a moment to suggest a more fruitful approach. When Penrose mentioned “the mystery of physical stuff,” there was no talk of Evolution. Why?
After all, all the physical stuff around us is the product of an evolutionary process that started billions of years before humanity and will continue billions of years after we are dust and forgotten - why ignore that this Earth created us and we will die back into it?
Seems to me acquiring such an awareness is a prerequisite for any subsequence discussion. While the omission relegates understanding Evolution to insignificance leaving our outlook on “reality” decidedly egocentric and myopic.
It is an indication of not having internalized the one sure thing about our existence above all else: we are the products of Earth’s long Evolution and will die back into her.
Penrose uses “the mystery” of physical stuff. Mysteries are things that unfold and are studied from within our “mindscape” - there are no mysteries within the natural order of physical stuff.
Nature unfolds without any fanfare, knowing exactly what to do next. It is our minds doing all the struggling to make sense of it.
Second mystery, Penrose’s “mental world”
That’s what I call our “mindscape” - all that our senses absorb and process into mental communications we learn from, ponder, and act upon.
His third mystery is “the world of mathematical abstraction.”
To me that’s a fancy way of saying the “language of science.”
Something I refer to as the “domain of science” - which resides only within the realm of our collective “mindscape” - though it is dedicated to soberly, truthfully studying and striving to understand the physical world as well as possible.
I believe framing these issues into such mysteries distances us from achieving a clearer appreciation for our place in the world and this time, because it overlooks the supremacy of the Earth and her ways and means.
I believe we must first appreciate that physical reality is what it is, fundamental and beyond our human existence. Then we’ll achieve a better vista for contemplating the mysteries of certain apes evolving into self-imagined masters of the Universe.
Stephen Gould inspired me with his Nonoverlapping Magisteria (NOMA) where he boils down our reality to the Magisteria of Science and the Magisteria of Religion while also leaving Earth out of his equation.
The real divide that Gould and others keep over looking is the divide between Earth/Physical Reality and the products of our human minds, which I refer to as our “mindscape” individually and collectively - as I write about here.
Now for my elevator pitch,
… The missing key is appreciating the fundamental “Magisteria of Physical Reality,” and recognizing both science and religion are products of the “Magisteria of Our Mindscape.”
The domain of Science seeks to objectively learn about our physical world, but we should still recognize all our understanding is embedded within and constrained by our mindscape.
As for the domain of Religion is all about the human mindscape itself, with its wonderful struggles, fears, spiritual undercurrents, needs and stories we create to give our live’s meaning and make it worth living, or at least bearable.
What’s the point?
Science, religions, heaven, hell, political beliefs, even God, they are all products of the human mindscape, generations of imaginings built upon previous generations of imaginings, all the way down.
Here we are, 2018,19 sober assessment of physical facts is out of fashion and fantasy thinking in the service of ruthless avarice is in.
Now it literally threatening to topple USA’s government Of The People, By The People, and For The People, in favor of a Me First, profits are more important than people, oligarch run machine.
Well, unless an awful lot of sideliners start getting engaged in our democratic process.
All the while the actual physical creation outside of our conceited little minds keeps on unfolding, following well understood geophysical rules regardless.
Ignore at our own peril.
Considering the Missing Key to Stephen Gould’s “Nonoverlapping Magisteria” (NOMA)
Peter, Why are you an Earth Centrist?