Chemical evolution of amino acids and proteins ? Impossible !! 

Science and Technology
1

Chemical evolution of amino acids and proteins ? Impossible !!

The problem of getting nitrogen to make amino acids and DNA on early earth 2:41
The problem of getting all amino acids used in llife by origin of life experiments 4:20
The problem of selecting 20 amino acids prebiotically out of hundreds supposedly existing on early earth. 6:08
The problem of concentrating the amino acids used in life at one assembly site. 7:15
The problem of understanding why life uses 20 amino acids, and not more or less. 9:00
The problem of homochirality 12:23
The problem of amino acid synthesis regulation 13:43
The problem of peptide bonding of amino acids to form proteins 14:12
The problem of linking the right amino acid side sequence together 17:15
The problem of getting the right forces to stabilize proteins - essential for their correct folding 19:32
The problem of hierarchical structures of proteins 19:50

2

@ Adonai888

And your point is? Are humans able to make amino acids and proteins in a lab?

NASA SCIENTISTS CREATE AMINO ACIDS IN DEEP-SPACE-LIKE ENVIRONMENT

NASA scientists today announced the creation of amino acids, critical for life, in an environment that mimics deep space. The research will be published in the March 28 issue of the journal Nature.

In a laboratory at NASA Ames Research Center in California’s Silicon Valley, the team of astrobiologists shone ultraviolet light on deep-space-like “ices,” simulating conditions that are commonplace in interstellar space. Deep-space ice is common water ice laced with simple molecules. The team subsequently discovered amino acids, molecules present in, and essential for, life on Earth.

“This finding may shed light on the origin of life itself,” said Dr. Max Bernstein, the first author and chemist at NASA Ames and the SETI Institute. “We found that amino acids can be made in the dense interstellar clouds where planetary systems and stars are made. Our experiments suggest that amino acids should be everywhere, wherever there are stars and planets.”

The amino acids they detected (glycine, alanine and serine) are the basic parts of proteins from which all life is made. Proteins provide the structure for, and do all the work in, living things.


https://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/news/releases/2002/02_33AR.html

Ok, does that clear up your list of “problems”?

Why is it that every time you run across a pseudo-scientific website, you start a new thread as if it there are newly discovered “problems” and “questions”?

How many times do you need refutation of “irreducible complexity”?

When you speak of "impossible odds"in context of universal chemistry, do you have any idea of what you are talking about?

3

Ok, does that clear up your list of “problems”?

 

did it actually address any of the problems listed ? i have not seen it

4
Adonai said,

did it actually address any of the problems listed ? i have not seen it


That is because your questions are nonsense to begin with.

Of course you cannot get “nitrogen to make amino acids and DNA on early earth”. The question is nonsense. Can you make a man from mud?

Just as it is complete nonsense to cite the impossibility of spontaneously creating a Boeing 747 from junk yard scrap . Your just making up problems that don’t exist

These type of questions are false and duplicitous. The fact is that a boeing 747 is merely an artificial copy of a bird and a very inefficient one at that.Nature wouldn’t fool around with such wasteful patterns. Nature’s patterns are finely honed (survivors of natural selection) over some 14 billion years of evolution.

Your problems and questions are contrived and have nothing to do with “natural chemical evolution”

Again, irreducible complexity has been debunked over and over again, but you just refuse to learn from science and persist in the mystical solutions, inventing a “problem of an irreducible complex sentient and motivated intelligence with human qualities which has existed eternally”. Give me a break!

5

Oh is @ Adonai888 and irreducible complexity fan? Been looking for one of them. Was that list of questions supposed to be an example of the ‘irreducible complexity’ argument has been reduced to? What happen to the good old days when you boldly told us only God could make something as incredible as the Human Eye?

Of course we know that they Eye didn’t pan out, neither did the flagellum - here’s my dilemma, those are the only two examples I know of, but debunked thorough by physical evidence. Now it seems me that’s been it so far a real examples, everything else seems devolve into science by rhetoric and What-If’s. Am I wrong Adonai, or can you point towards other example so irreducible complexity?

 

PS. Pageant of Earth's Evolution (in 24hr) part one

Pageant of Earth’s Evolution (in 24hr) part two


Some like seem to love their imagined statistics of impossibility.

Me, I like the constructive learning process. That means further reading.

 

¶ 1 … the first half = Pageant of Earth's Evolution (in 24hr) part one pageant of Evolution = video_The Emergence of Life on Earth, Robert Hazen, March 15, 2012 first = Paper_Nick Lane: Unearthing the First Cellular Innovations enduring Life = video, How Energy Flow Shapes The Evolution of Life, Nick Lane, Feb 14, 2018 about 4 hours = video_The Origin of Cellular Life on Earth, Jack Szostak, 2012 claw together = How life evolved: 10 steps to the first cells existence = Earliest evidence of life on Earth ‘found’ ……By Pallab Ghosh, BBC News,1 March 2017 simple = Archaea, Wiki article protective sacks = The first cell membranes, Deamer, et al, 2002 harsh environment. = Paper_Early Earth Had a Hazy, Methane-filled Atmosphere

¶ 2 …
Evolution progressed = video_Inevitable Life?, Eric Smith, Professor, Santa Fe Institute, April 18, 2007
very slowly - Why Did Earth Have a Poison-Filled “Boring Billion” Years?, Rebecca Kessler, Feb 25, 2011
hostile environment = video_How Oxygen Can Alter Evolution and Adaptation of Life in the Ocean, Erik Sperling
limited means, = Iron toxicity for cyanobacteria delayed oxygen accumulation in early Earth’s atmosphere, Swanner et al. 2015
stifled further development. = Earth’s ‘boring billion’ years of stagnant, stinking oceans might actually have been rather dynamic, by Simon Poulton
key early scientific breakthrough = Philosophy of Cell Biology, 2019
perspective, = Story of Dr. Peter Mitchell, biochemistry, chemiosmotic theory, bioenergetics.
environment = Chapter 5: THE LIVING ENVIRONMENT, project2061.org, American Association for the Advancement of Science

¶ 3 …
geology and biology = paper_The co-evolution of Life and Earth, Dietrich et al. 2017
combining forces =Geology Intersects Biology, Laura Levis
process and tame = paper_The timetable of evolution, May 17, 2017
to the point that = Integrated records of environmental change and evolution challenge the Cambrian Explosion
descendants = = Archaea: Morphology, ucmp.berkeley.edu
had the means = video_How Energy Flow Shapes The Evolution of Life - Professor Nick Lane
Developing environments = Poster_Earth Evolution, intersection of Geology and Biology, May 19, 2017
changing conditions = Life: Evolution and Extinction, WGBH
ocean = Oceans Through Time, ocean.si.edu
atmosphere = The earth’s original atmosphere, atmo.arizona.edu/students
spectacular innovations and expansion = video_Animal Dawn - Dr. Diego Garcia-Bellido, 2016

¶ 4 …
geology taught biology = Geobiology - Life Emergent, Helen Hill, 2014
building blocks = paper_The evolution of geobiology in the context of living stromatolites, Spear, Corsetti, 2013
forcing it to adapt = Tempo And Mode In Evolution: Genetics And Paleontology 50 Years After Simpson.
changing conditions = Evolution Of The Atmosphere: Composition, Structure And Energy, globalchange.umich.edu
repurposed = How skates and rays got their wings, University of Chicago Medical Center, 2015
genetic heritage = The Concept of Co-option: Why Evolution Often Looks Miraculous, McLennan, 2008
body parts = paper_Developmental-Genetic Toolkit for Evolutionary Developmental Biology, Schneider, Amemiya, Dec 2016
modifications made = The Continuing Evolution of Genes, Zimmer, 2014
learned to thrive = What is biodiversity?, Lenne, 2019
brave new environments = Reciprocality between biology and geology: Reconstructing polar Gondwana, Michaux, 2009

¶5
increasing interaction = ‘Evo-devo’ biology tackles evolutionary history’s unanswered questions, Indiana University, 2014
stuff of competition = paper_Rethinking Early Evolution: Earth’s Earliest Animal Ecosystem Was Complex And Included Sexual Reproduction, University of California - Riverside, 2008
working together = paper_The Evolution of Evo-Devo Biology, Goodman, Coughlin, 2000
ecology = video_The Ediacaran Period: Glimpses of the Earth’s Earliest Animals, Calla Carbone, 2016
outlines of today’s world = video_The origins of Ecdysozoan body plans, Martin Smith, 2017

¶6
variations on those themes = Fossils of the Cambrian Period, fossilmuseum.net
plate tectonics = video_Ancient Landscapes of the Colorado Plateau, Wayne Ranney, 2015
climate = Earth’s Earliest Climate, Angela M. Hessler, 2011
celestial = Bombardment of the early Solar System, Nature Geoscience, July 2013
influences = Milankovitch Cycles, OpenSourceSystems.foundation.us

¶7
Paleozoic Era = video_The Hidden Secrets of the Ordovician Age, Richard Smith, Oct 21, 2014
old life = Paleozoic Era, Palaeos Paleozoic: The Paleozoic Era
Ordovician Period = Ordovician Period, earth.usc.edu
Jostling = video_1.5 billion years of Plate Tectonics, C.R. Scotese, Oct 1, 2017
first plants = video_How plants crawled out of the sea, Oct 5, 2015
on land = The first conquerors of land, Vasika Udurawane, EarthArchives.org
converged around the South Pole = 50 years ago, an Antarctic fossil pointed to Gondwanaland’s existence, Maria Temming, 2019
killer ice age = paper_The Magnitude and Duration of Late Ordovician–Early Silurian Glaciation, February 11, 2011

¶8
Silurian Period = The Silurian - 443 to 417 Million Years Ago, Paleoportal.org
diversifying species = paper_Diversity Dynamics of Silurian–Early Carboniferous Land Plants in South China, September 20, 2013

¶9
Devonian Period = Devonian Period, Ohio History Central
18 minutes = The First Forests, DevonianTimes.org
continents aligning = paper_On the sensitivity of the Devonian climate to continental configuration, vegetation cover and insolation, Brugger et al., 2018
Pangea = Facts About Pangaea the Most Recent Supercontinent
seeds = Seed Evolution Webpage, seedbiology.de

¶10
Pangea = Coal formation linked to assembly of supercontinent Pangea, Nelsen et al., 2016

tectonics = 1.5 billion years of Plate Tectonics, C.R. Scotese, Oct 1, 2017
poisoned the ocean = What caused Earth’s biggest mass extinction?, Hannah Hickey, Dec 6, 2018
refugees = Why Did Life Move to Land? For the View, Jennifer Ouellette, March 7, 2017
explore = Evolution and Function of Freshwater Ecosystems, Pokorný P.
systems = Book_Freshwater Fishes: 250 Million Years of Evolutionary History
land habitats = Evolution: Out Of The Sea, Christie Wilcox, July 28, 2012

¶11
Carboniferous Period = Plants Cover The Earth, fossils-facts-and-finds.com
a big deal = paper_Formation of most of our coal brought Earth close to global glaciation, Georg Feulner, 2017
35% oxygen = The Age of Oxygen (400 MYA to 290 MYA), Smithsonian Institution
land soaked it in = Coal formation linked to assembly of supercontinent Pangea, Ker Than, Jan 20, 2016
insects = Video_ The Age of Giant Insects, PBS Eons, Sep 18, 2017
giants = Why Giant Bugs Once Roamed the Earth, By Ker Than, August 9, 2011
plants = Early Plant Life, LumenLearning.com
forests = The First Forests, Sedeer el-Showk, July 08, 2013
egg = Eggs and Their Evolution, stanford.edu

¶12
biota = A hidden cradle of plant evolution in Permian tropical lowlands, Blomenkemper, 2018
for 15 minutes = Permian to Triassic, British Geologic Survey,

¶13
like none other = End-Permian extinction, which wiped out most of Earth’s species, was instantaneous in geological time, by Jennifer Chu, Sept. 19, 2018
melted into sills = paper_Initial pulse of Siberian Traps sills as the trigger of the end-Permian mass extinction, Burgess et al., 2017

¶14
Siberian Traps = Earth’s worst extinction “inescapably” tied to Siberian Traps, CO2, and climate change, Howard Lee, October 14, 2015
So ended = Siberian Traps likely culprit for end-Permian extinction, Jennifer Chu, Sept 16, 2015

¶15
Mesozoic = The Mesozoic Era, palaeos.com
middle life = The Mesozoic Era IV: Flowers and Mammals, University of Maryland, Tholtz, 2011
begins = The Triassic Period: the rise of the dinosaurs, Josh Davis, August 27, 2019
Triassic Period = Reptiles Inherit The Earth, fossils-facts-and-finds.com
didn’t miss a beat = paper_Life in the Aftermath of Mass Extinctions, Pincelli Hull, Oct. 5, 2015
noteworthy = Closing Romer’s Gap: The story so far, National Museums Scotland
adaptations = The origin of tetrapods, Evolution.Berkeley.edu
tetrapods = The Basic Groups of Tetrapods Evolved - Lecture 9, EESC.columbia.edu,
four feet = Tetrapod Triumph! Solving Mystery Of First Land Vertebrates, By Gemma Tarlach, Dec 5, 2016
who = Paleobiology of the Mesozoic Era, FossilMuseum.net
differentiated = video_Wings, Legs, and Fins: How Do New Organs Arise in Evolution?, Neil Shubin, 2009
amphibians = The evolution of Amphibians: The Conquest of Land, David López Bosch, July 2015
reptiles = The genesis of reptiles and the amniotic egg, ReptileEvolution.com
dinosaurs = How Did Dinosaurs Evolve?, Bob Strauss, April 18, 2018
mammal-like reptiles = The Stem-Mammals–a Brief Primer, Darren Naish, Sept 20, 2016
bird = Earliest Beginnings Of Bird Evolution Brought Into Focus With New DNA Analysis, AllAboutBirds.com Oct 5, 2015
lineages = Origin and Evolution of Birds, UntamedScience.com
Plants = The evolution of plants part 4: A tale of flowers and seeds, Vasika Udurawane
new heights = video_How did plants become forests during the Carboniferous?, Benjamin Burger, Nov 7, 2015
scaled down = Reign of the giant insects ended with the evolution of birds, Tim Stephens, June 04, 2012
did = paper_A bottom-up perspective on ecosystem change in Mesozoic oceans, Knoll, Follows, 2016
ocean Life = Greenhouse World and The Mesozoic Oceans, Takashima et al., 2006

¶16
Pangea = Breakup of supercontinent Pangea cooled mantle and thinned crust, University of Texas at Austin, Dec 2016
now breaking up = paper_Quantifying the effects of the break up of Pangaea on global terrestrial diversification with neutral theory, Jordan 2016
decimating = Life between extinctions: cracking open the Cretaceous period, Katie Kline, Mar 25, 2010
Triassic Period = 3.4.3. Triassic-Jurassic Boundary, ldeo.columbia.edu
biota = Triassic Period, GeologyPage.com, April 7, 2014
reptiles = Ancestral Reptiles of the Carboniferous and Permian Periods, ThoughtCo.com
Survivors included dinosaurs = Decade of fossil collecting gives new perspective on Triassic period, emergence of dinosaurs, University of Washington, March 28, 2018
Jurassic Period = Jurassic Period, ScienceViews.com
critters = The Evolution of the First Mammals, Bob Strauss, June 24, 2019
Cretaceous Period= What can the Cretaceous tell us about our climate?, Philip Pika, August 20, 2018
Mammal-like = Synapsid, Wikipedia
diversifying = Two studies, two answers: When exactly did mammals emerge?, Brad Balukjian, Aug 7, 2013
Flowers = paper_Evolving Ideas on the Origin and Evolution of Flowers: New Perspectives in the Genomic Era, Andre S. Chanderbali, et al., 2016
fruit = 26.1C: Evolution of Angiosperms, LibreTexts, Nov, 19,2019
reptiles = The First Reptiles, ThoughtCo.com
amphibians = Cretaceous Amphibians, Western Australian Museum, 2014

¶17
a well aimed = Fossil Site Reveals Day That Meteor Hit Earth and, Maybe, Wiped Out Dinosaurs, Broad and, Chang, March 29, 2019
space rock crashed into = The Impact That Wiped Out the Dinosaurs, Hartmann, Planetary Science Institute
Mesozoic Era = The Mesozoic era, AustralianMuseum.net

¶18
eventually recovered = How long did it take for life to rebound after the death of the dinosaurs?, Sarah Kaplan, Nov. 7, 2016
survivors = Placental Mammals Originated On Earth 65 Million Years Ago, Carnegie Museum of Natural History, June 21, 2007
Cenozoic = Cenozoic Era, University of Kansas
new life = The Cenozoic, Palaeos.com

¶19
genetic toolkit = paper_Developmental-Genetic Toolkit for Evolutionary Developmental Biology, Schneider, Amemiya, Dec 2016
adaptations and diversification = Misconceptions about evolution, berkley.edu
modern = Rising fast: the first trees, EarthHistory.org.uk
forests = Tracing the evolution of forest trees, Marlene Cimons, Nov 2014
grasslands = How did grasses alter Earth’s ecosystem?, Caroline Strőmberg, June 8, 2015
mammals = Flowering plants, new teeth and no dinosaurs: New study sheds light on the rise of mammals, University of Washington, May 1, 2019
how to exploit = The idiosyncratic mammalian diversification after extinction of the dinosaurs, Peter Moon, Dec 21, 2018

¶20
primates = The First Primates, Palomar.edu
first hominids = Infographic_Human Evolution: A Timeline of Early Hominids, EarthHow.com, Sept 2, 2018
modern humans - Homo sapiens – modern humans, Fran Dorey, 11/12/18
appeared = World History Timelines - Mapping Two Million Years of Humanity, K. Kris Hirst, August 31, 2019
6 seconds = Human History Timeline, humanhistorytimeline.com

¶21
past milliseconds = book_The Timetables of History: A Horizontal Linkage of People and Events, Based on Werner Stein’s Kulturfahrplan, Bernard Grun
learned = The Evolution of Philosophy, Christopher J. Wills, Sept 2012
reflect = Abbreviated and simplified history of Western Philosophy, PhilosophyBasics.com
masters of science = Timeline of scientific discoveries, From Wikipedia
manipulating the physical world = How Are We Changing the Physical Environment of Earth’s Surface?, NAP.edu

¶22
We know much = The Birth of Modern Science, TheGreatCoursesDaily.com
but understand next to nothing = The missing key to Stephen Gould’s Nonoverlapping Magisteria, citizenschallenge.blogspot.com
demonstrated by = “Overdevelopment, Overpopulation, Overshoot” PopulationSpeakOut.org
(*) = DeepEcology.org
wanton destruction = Powerful new map depicts environmental degradation across Earth, by Michael Miller, Nov 19, 2018

¶23
Humanity’s gluttonous = The Evolution of Human Gluttony, Nathan Lents, Sept 20, 2014
self-serving = paper_Human Domination of Earth’s Ecosystems, Vitouse et al. 1997,
inflicting reckless damages = Rate of environmental degradation puts life on Earth at risk, say scientists, Oliver Milman, Jan 15, 2015
like never before = Human impact has pushed Earth into the Anthropocene, scientists say, Adam Vaughan, Jan 7, 2016

injecting ever more = How we measure background CO2 levels on Mauna Loa, Earth System Research Laboratory, NOAA
insulating CO2 = CO2 Science - Blue team: "Pruitt, it’s certain as certain gets! It’s the physics! Don’t you know???, ConfrontingScienceContrarians, citizenschallenge
carbonic-acid = The Chemistry of Ocean Acidification, PMEL.NOAA.gov
since the triggers = The Great Permian Extinction: When all life on Earth almost vanish, Jackson Chambers, 2016

¶24
Not much = Peter, why are you an Earth Centrist?
there will be consequences = FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT, nca2018.globalchange.gov
Mother Earth = Our Changing Biosphere, serc.carleton.edu

6

Nature’s patterns are finely honed (survivors of natural selection)

 

there was no natural selection prior to DNA replication. So you can throw your evolution crutches in the trashbin to explain how the first cell factory emerged…

7
Adonai888: there was no natural selection prior to DNA replication.
How in the world do you figure that? Please explain.

Are you saying mineral evolution is impossible?

Are you familiar with Robert Hazen and his work?

8

Adonai888 - it’s always good to get definitions.

Can you define your understanding of what “evolution” actually means. I don’t mean that flippantly, definitions are important and it seems to me you’re implying evolution is only something that living organisms do. That doesn’t make sense to me.

That’s why I’d be interested to hear how you would define evolution.

9

There, that’ll get you a masters degree. Thanks CC. I plan to add all that to my reference library.

Of course Adonai and Mike Yohe are Intelligent Design fans.

IMO, that idea evolved from the assumption that god is a intelligent, motivated, omnipotent entity with human qualities. This allows them to propose all these “divinely designed irreducibly complex patterns” in their entirety, instead of looking at the purely mathematical aspects of universal evolutionary processes.

Evolution = Unfolding (change, growth, refinement)

ev·o·lu·tion, (ĕv′ə-lo͞o′shən, ē′və-)n.

1.a. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form. b. A result of this process; a development: Judo is an evolution of an earlier martial art.
  1. Biology; A gradual change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, often resulting in the development of new species.

b. The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny.


The mechanisms of evolution include natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, mutation, migration, and genetic drift.

3. Astronomy; Change in the structure, chemical composition, or dynamical properties of a celestial object or system such as a planetary system, star, or galaxy. Evolution often changes the observable or measurable characteristics of the object or system.

  1. A movement that is part of a set of ordered movements: naval evolutions in preparation for battle.

  2. Mathematics; The extraction of a root of a quantity.


Evolution - definition of evolution by The Free Dictionary

10

Are you saying mineral evolution is impossible?

 

what does that have to do with the origin of amino acids, proteins, and life ?

11

What would you call it?

12
Adonai888 said,

what does that have to do with the origin of amino acids, proteins, and life ?


On the evolution of the standard amino-acid alphabet

At the root of biology there are a handful of biochemical standards, the ubiquity of which tempts us to take them for granted. One is the standard 'alphabet' of 20 encoded amino acids, shared by organisms that diverged as early as Escherichia coli and human beings. But numerous lines of evidence, from abiotic chemistry to protein engineering, combine to indicate that this alphabet could potentially have consisted of fewer, more, or just plain different amino acids. So why have these 20 become the standard alphabet?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1431706/

Why is there only one shape of cart-wheel (round)? Because it is the only pattern which supports rolling motion! Square wheels do not.

Why are there only twenty amino acids? Because they work and if they work they survive. If something does not work no matter how many variations there are, they are “selected out” by natural selection. Nature does not support useless particles or patterns. It may create them (unfolding) but then they disappear (enfolding) again back into the cosmic soup.

The Higgs boson is one of the most important particles in the universe. Yet there exist no individual Higgs bosons anywhere. They are always connected with a massive object in that they give mass to matter.

We were able to create Higgs bosons at Cern, but they immediately decay into other forms, such as photons or quarks.

Elusive Elementary Particle Finally Caught Decaying—Get the Facts

Not seeing the Higgs boson break down like this would have been very bad for our understanding of how the universe works.

What do quarks have to do with it?
Unlike electrons, which can last for billions of years, the life of a Higgs boson is astonishingly short—less than a sextillionth of a second. After this fleeting existence, a Higgs boson breaks apart into other types of particles. For instance, researchers announced in 2014 that ATLAS and CMS, two detectors at the LHC, had watched Higgs bosons decay into pairs of gamma-ray photons.
The Standard Model also predicts that the Higgs can decay into particles called quarks. Quarks come in six flavors—up, down, top, bottom, charm, and strange—and are the building blocks for the protons and neutrons in atoms, among other larger particles.


https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2018/08/higgs-boson-decay-quarks-lhc-standard-model-physics/

And so it is with all “unstable particles” they cannot exist “unfolded” for any extended period of time before they “enfold” back into their respective quantum fields.

13

Why are there only twenty amino acids? Because they work and if they work they survive.

 

are you aware about the utter nonsense you write ? Life DEPENDS on proteins…

 

14
Adonai888 said,

are you aware about the utter nonsense you write ? Life DEPENDS on proteins……


Yes, and life depends on specific type of amino acids and proteins. If life did not need those specific molecular patterns they would not exist.

OTOH, you are uttering pure nonsense by positing that some external life which does NOT depend on proteins is responsible for all the amino acids and proteins in the universe. Do you see the contradiction.

Are you proposing that God is NOT a living thing? In that case I agree. If there is a God it is not alive but mathematical in properties. It’s not complicated or magical at all.

These patterns evolved because they do support life. Living things evolved because of specific types of amino acids and proteins.

The universe is not a scrap heap for assembling Boeing 747s. All the patterns we can observe today (from cosmic clouds to living things) are an evolutionary result of 14.5 billion years of pattern formation. It’s all mathematical , i.e. a quasi-intelligent self-ordering process.

That’s why you mistake it for intentional and motivated creation by some supernatural mystical living entity which cannot possibly exist. Wishful thinking does not make it so.

Amino acids and proteins (as defined) can exist and do as has been demonstrated in our laboratories.

God (as defined) cannot exist and doesn’t. It doesn’t use amino acids and proteins and no one has been able to create a miracle in a laboratory yet.

Proof:

Self-organization in micron-sized Nb3O7(OH) cubes during a hydrothermal treatment at 200 °C. Initially amorphous cubes gradually transform into ordered 3D meshes of crystalline nanowires as summarized in the model below.[1]

15

Life DEPENDS on proteins…… what i meant is biological life.

16

Adonai888, Write4U is smarter and more knowledgeable than you on this topic. I suggest that you submit to his superiority.

Speaking of how somethings are, just because that’s works. I often think the same thing when I hear ancient alien advocates talking about the pyramids that exist all around the world being such a great mystery that they must be evidence of alien visitations. There are ancient pyramids all around the world, because all people in large civilizations, tend to build things. The large structures that have survived thru the ages, are pyramids. That is simply because pyramids are the most stable structures that humans have built. Iow, they exist because they can exist, i.e., are not easily destroyed by time. It is no big mystery. No doubt there were many many other types of structures that humans built thru out our time, all around the world. But they were subject to utter erasure by time, and erosion. While the various pyramids, around the world survived.

Just as, 20 amino acids work, therefore they are. No big mystery.

17
Adonai888 said,

are you aware about the utter nonsense you write ? Life DEPENDS on proteins……

 

Write4U said: Yes, and life depends on specific type of amino acids and proteins. If life did not need those specific molecular patterns they would not exist.

OTOH, you are uttering pure nonsense by positing that some external life which does NOT depend on proteins is responsible for all the amino acids and proteins in the universe. Do you see the contradiction.

Are you proposing that God is NOT a living thing? In that case I agree. If there is a God it is not alive but mathematical in properties. It’s not complicated or magical at all.


Then it’s as though Adonai didn’t read a word W4U.

Adonai888 wrote: Life DEPENDS on proteins…… what i meant is biological life.
 

Sounds like now you’re stretching it, you really are suggesting a non-biological non-living life form?
(To me that seem like an example of WHAT-IF argumentations, that sound great to the unschooled, but are total dead ends within the reality of this physical world we are confined within.)

It has no substance and can’t be demonstrated through any ordinary physical means.

The only place it can be proven to be found is within the Human Mindscape - that is, everything your mind can produce,

(before our hands get involved to transform some of those ideas into physical reality.

Which can only be done with some of the imaginings we come up with.)

 

18
Then it’s as though Adonai didn’t read a word W4U.
Agreed. When I saw that, I formulated paragraphs of posts in my head, but then realized he will do the same thing to those, not read them, or not absorb them.
19

It has no substance and can’t be demonstrated through any ordinary physical means.

 

not needed.

Being cannot come from non-being.
Since we exist, then being has always been in one form or another.
Since the universe had a beginning, a non-physical being must have existed beyond the universe, causing the universe into existence.
That being is God.

 

20
December 22, 2019 at 9:55 pm#316185 Adonai888writes;

Cc wrote: “It has no substance and can’t be demonstrated through any ordinary physical means.”

Adonai888writes:

"not needed.

Being cannot come from non-being.
Since we exist, then being has always been in one form or another.
Since the universe had a beginning, a non-physical being must have existed beyond the universe, causing the universe into existence.
That being is God."


Well Okay. SO WHAT? Seriously. Ever read the Book of Job in the Bible - one of the key take away ( that I believe most all Biblical scholars agree on) is that God is beyond human understanding. After all the “Whatever-it-is-God of the Universe” has been around billions of years, has seen plenty of stuff come and go.

Guess the real question for you is how do you figure that you understand that God of Creation?

Please can you explain to me, how petty people, you, or me, or any human being - when people, all of us, are all self-centered, insecure, envious, greedy, self-serving to one degree or another, how can any human mind possible be sharp and expansive enough to understand God - the supposed creature of all life and all generation past and yet to come.

I mean really, you can’t answer me on this - this one is for you and yourself, tonight as you say your prayers, . . . ask yourself what have you ever done or seen that could possible empower, or enable, you to focus in on who God is.

 

Yet your type goes strutting and prancing around so self-certain - like you know what and who God is. That is utter blasphemous egomaniacal thinking.

What put that stuff into your head?