Can "stardusty" defend his skepticalscience.com slander, or admit his bias based error? Answer is NO. (7/20/16)

Politics and Social Issues
81
DougC - I’ve lived in cities of a million or more people that are highly dependent on glacier runoff in dry seasons for water, there are millions of people worldwide who are in the same boat.
Really, what cities are those? Where are these millions of people located specifically? Every link you have sent me and all the research I have done is that most glaciers either flow out to sea unused or flow into rivers with summer rains and actually contribute slightly to summer flooding. There are very few regions where people live between the glacier and the first tributaries. Further, retreating glaciers typically leave behind small lakes that can also act as storage and snowmelt is also a remaining storage method as is increasing upland groundwater recharge once the glacier gets out of the way.
I have no idea of what your motivation is to be a complete merchant of doubt,
Healthy skepticism
82
DougC - I’ve lived in cities of a million or more people that are highly dependent on glacier runoff in dry seasons for water, there are millions of people worldwide who are in the same boat.
Really, what cities are those? Where are these millions of people located specifically? Every link you have sent me and all the research I have done is that most glaciers either flow out to sea unused or flow into rivers with summer rains and actually contribute slightly to summer flooding. There are very few regions where people live between the glacier and the first tributaries. Further, retreating glaciers typically leave behind small lakes that can also act as storage and snowmelt is also a remaining storage method as is increasing upland groundwater recharge once the glacier gets out of the way.
I have no idea of what your motivation is to be a complete merchant of doubt,
Healthy skepticism
Go cherry pick someone elses posts loser...
83
DougC - There’s no question in my mind that this is a professional contrarian probably working for one of the industry created and funded “think" tanks.
That's hilarious!!! Indeed I am a Hasbara for the corporate greed meisters because posting here with this audience is a very cost effective means to push our global destruction for profit agenda, mwoohahaha cackle snortle heh heh heh... But yes, I am a bit of a contrarian in my postings in that I rarely post in agreement. "Me too" circle jerks are very boring. I like to test my ideas against those who will criticize them vociferously. My skepticism extends to myself. I am even skeptical of my own positions.
84
DougC - Go cherry pick someone elses posts loser…
So you are unable to list these cities that depend on glacier runoff for summer water that you supposedly lived in. Nor can you provide the specif location for these supposed millions of dependent people.
85

It’s too late to play your game, so this will be without comment, but this information certainly disputes your malicious bullshit
Researchers: Tibetan Glacial Melt Threatens Billions
Researchers: Tibetan Glacial Melt Threatens Billions
Meltwater from Tibetan glaciers floods pastures
New satellite techniques reveal rapid glacier melt on the Tibetan plateau is causing lakes to overflow and flood pastures
Meltwater from Tibetan glaciers floods pastures | The Third Pole
Ürumqi, Xinjiang, China
Disappearing Glaciers Threaten Water Supply in Ürumqi, Xinjiang, China | Global Warming Effects
Vanishing Ice: Asia Running Dry
http://chinawaterrisk.org/opinions/vanishing-ice-asia-running-dry/

86
CC source quote "" the Tibetan Plateau is about the size of Western Europe and supplies water to nearly 2 billion people in Asia as the source of several major rivers, including the Yangze, Mekong, Salween (Gyalmo Ngulchu), Indus, Brahmaputra and Yellow rivers"
Hilarious!!! 2 billion people. Ha Ha Ha. I debunked this already. Those rivers suffer from summer floods due to summer rains, dipshit. The glacier runoff only makes the floods a little worse!!! The rivers are already dammed, so without the glaciers the seasonal runoff will be controlled. Try thinking for yourself instead of going all panicky over some stupid scare site bullshit.
87
CC source quote "" the Tibetan Plateau is about the size of Western Europe and supplies water to nearly 2 billion people in Asia as the source of several major rivers, including the Yangze, Mekong, Salween (Gyalmo Ngulchu), Indus, Brahmaputra and Yellow rivers"
Hilarious!!! 2 billion people. Ha Ha Ha. I debunked this already. Those rivers suffer from summer floods due to summer rains, dipshit. The glacier runoff only makes the floods a little worse!!!.
Ever heard of *spring run-off* where the lose snow in the mountains melts very quickly and can cause raging rivers, which do very little irrigation and often result in river bank erosion? Once the lose snow has melted we get to the frozen ice which melts much slower and provides a continuous ice melt, which keeps the water level in the rivers from drying up, especially when a warm spring is followed by a hot summer. And that's a fact. My friend and I tried a canoe run down a small river during spring run-off and my mate and I ended up in the water, swimming for our lives, with the canoe literally wrapped around a dead tree stump. We had to dislodge the canoe by pulling it to shore with our truck. I don't doubt your sincerity, it's just that you speak from what you have read and not from real life experience.
88

These real time statistics may show the scope of what we are dealing with.
Water
5,089,668,612 Water consumed this year (million L)

394,270 Deaths caused by water related diseases this year

648,460,060 People with no access to a safe drinking water source
Energy
373,638,505 Energy used today (MWh), of which:
302,645,544 - from non-renewable sources (MWh)
70,992,961 - from renewable sources (MWh)
2,789,691,116,236 MWh Solar energy striking Earth today
79,959,627 Oil pumped today (barrels)
 1,149,185,892,096 Oil left (barrels)
13,681 Days to the end of oil (~37 years) (at current consumption)
1,123,017,382,985 Gas left (boe)
59,106 Days to the end of gas (at current consumption)
 4,357,990,184,922 Coal left (boe)
150,276 Days to the end of coal (at current consumption)
Worldometers - real time world statistics

89

CC - Ürumqi, Xinjiang, China

Runoff in the Ürumqi River basin increased by 30 percent from 1983 to 2006, as both temperature and precipitation levels rose.10
So precipitation is increasing.
Like many parts of Asia, Xinjiang relies on glaciers to store and supply water. Disappearance of the Tian Shan glaciers would therefore prove devastating for the region's 20 million people
But increasing precipitation is going to "devastate" 20 million people. WTF? Hmm...what amazing new invention will store this increasing precipitation and also produce clean electricity? Something the Chinese already have shown a penchant for building... Hydro electric dams. Problem solved.
90
Write4U - My friend and I tried a canoe run down a small river during spring run-off
Anecdotes don't matter. Most of the rivers on the map suffer from summer floods due to summer rains, not spring snowmelt. Most of the rivers on the map already have multiple dams to control flooding, produce electricity, and store water. They don't need glaciers. Glaciers are irrelevant or actually contribute a little to summer floods. There are a few areas near the Western mountains that are somewhat arid that do actually get some benefit from glacial storage. When the glaciers are gone there will still be storage in lakes, upland aquifer recharge, and if necessary the Chinese can build a few more dams like they always do.
91

Early morning thoughts, and I wish like hell I could spend the day working with them because I’ve got a real essay buried in here somewhere.
Time to move beyond arguing facts, and time we start explicitly focusing on dissecting the mental interior
of these Republican/libertarian, faith based con-artist.
This is probably a grammatical and literary mess, but f if I don’t have to run off again,… even freedom has it’s cost.
so rough stream of thought is what it is.
I want to put it out there because I finally have the feeling there are a few others out there wrestling with enunciating these same ideas.
happy musing, pete

How the hell do you deal with people who are so cocooned???
dusty you live in a make-believe world with the depth of a cartoon.
You have been offered various articles that have explained how important glaciers are because of more reasons than simply how much water is released into rivers.
But, that’s all there is for you. Everything else is irrelevant -
What’s so ugly is that everyone who tries to share some of the complexities that you are missing is treated like worthless scum.
in your world you are good guys, and everyone else is bad guys - wanting to take what is or should be yours.
Your world view never makes it beyond self-interest
Glaciers are critically important for way more reasons than the water they discharge into a river!
Then there’s dusty’s casual dam building talk.

Reminds me of my Saturday morning cartoons as a kid. Particularly the one, where the guy had his own portable hole. Fold it up, put it in his pocket and off he went. Saw some diamonds, hey, my hole, slap it on and grab the gems. Cops have you cornered, put it out the portable hole drop in on the ground, too small, jank here and there presto, in he jumps, his hand makes one last appearance as it peeks out the hole to grab it back. Presto silly cops are staring at the ground. The stuff to birth a thousand daydreams.
I'm sure dusty won't be interested in this tedious reading, but for others, you'll find some interesting details and background bet you never knew. I certainly learned plenty and in that regard the dusty's of the world do serve their constructive purpose - but they never reciprocate and absorb anything Why does dusty's ego demand that he rejects everything that disagrees with his world view? That absolute oneway dialogue is what's so hideous beyond description - This may seem like a wild digression, but allow me, we gotta wrestle with the emotional mental interior of contrarians such as yohi, dusty - since it's obviously it's no good to reason with them and expect the same sort of inner dynamics to take place as they do within us. Here is how my personal process works (and I can't help but think it true of most rational folks) I love information, I love being challenged to support my understanding, because I love to learn and better understand this world I was born from and will die back into. I get a challenge like dusty's and I investigate. Computers have made that an amazing thing, in a way only pre-computer kids like me can appreciate. So now days I google. I read up on said item. I try to suspend my skepticism and try to grasp what the other are trying to explain. But once that's done with, the information collides with what I've learned over decades of study (non-academic for sure, but every bit as educational for developing a realistic appreciation for the wonderful complexity and history of this fantastic Earth I was born into.). Then I google for stuff that experts, who have tackled these claims, have to say. In this case I see that direct contribution to rivers isn't as great as we were previously led to believe. But in the same breath we learn about all these other details that are equality important - if distal. factors that make glaciers critically to our biosphere and yes human society. And every time dusty bobs up, with withering contempt for glaciers and a maniacs dismissal. The world without glaciers will be hideous hellish place. But that's alright for the dusty's and yohi's they hate most people and multi-ethic society anyways since it gets in the way of their presume god given freedoms. These are the same type that keep telling us solving the problems that militarism and weapons of mass destruction created, with more weapons of mass destruction and brutal upheaval and even killing of innocent life. They stand there telling the world they don't understand why it's not working, but let them drop a few more bombs that will fix everything, as they count their gold bullion. Oh yeah, back on point
Massive new dams remind China of human price of ‘tofu constructions’ LEO TILMONT BEIJING — Worldcrunch.com / ECONOMIC OBSERVER Jul. 10, 2013 6:14PM EDT http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/asian-pacific-business/massive-new-dams-remind-china-of-human-price-of-tofu-constructions/article13123199/?page=all ~~~~~ Will Himalayan Dams Solve India's Energy Woes? The Indian government believes so, and plans to build 300 in the coming decades. http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a8701/will-himalayan-dams-solve-indias-energy-woes-14982175/ ~~~~~ By Tim Newcomb Jan 15, 2013 Threats from India's Himalaya Dams R. Edward Grumbine, Maharaj K. Pandit http://science.sciencemag.org/content/339/6115/36.summary
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CC source quote "" the Tibetan Plateau is about the size of Western Europe and supplies water to nearly 2 billion people in Asia as the source of several major rivers, including the Yangze, Mekong, Salween (Gyalmo Ngulchu), Indus, Brahmaputra and Yellow rivers"
Hilarious!!! 2 billion people. Ha Ha Ha. I debunked this already.
Refusing to believe information that refutes your talking points is not debunking.
Those rivers suffer from summer floods due to summer rains, dipshit.
Classy as ever, I see. Too bad the mods are absent. This discussion might have some value if they would step in and enforce the site rules.
Try thinking for yourself instead of going all panicky over some stupid scare site bullshit.
Scare site = any site that publishes facts inconvenient to your narrative.
93
CC source quote "" the Tibetan Plateau is about the size of Western Europe and supplies water to nearly 2 billion people in Asia as the source of several major rivers, including the Yangze, Mekong, Salween (Gyalmo Ngulchu), Indus, Brahmaputra and Yellow rivers"
Hilarious!!! 2 billion people. Ha Ha Ha. I debunked this already. Those rivers suffer from summer floods due to summer rains, dipshit. The glacier runoff only makes the floods a little worse!!!.
Ever heard of *spring run-off* where the lose snow in the mountains melts very quickly and can cause raging rivers, which do very little irrigation and often result in river bank erosion? Once the lose snow has melted we get to the frozen ice which melts much slower and provides a continuous ice melt, which keeps the water level in the rivers from drying up, especially when a warm spring is followed by a hot summer. And that's a fact. My friend and I tried a canoe run down a small river during spring run-off and my mate and I ended up in the water, swimming for our lives, with the canoe literally wrapped around a dead tree stump. We had to dislodge the canoe by pulling it to shore with our truck. I don't doubt your sincerity, it's just that you speak from what you have read and not from real life experience. Real life experience, put a pump in a runoff creek to water the corn field earlier then when the canal would be in operation. Did not work. The water was too cold for the corn seed. It worked ok on the alfalfa, but that was all. A total waste of time and money.
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In the end the only lesson to be learned here is that it’s not possible to have a human discussion with people who have resigned from the human race.

95

It is also impossible to have a constructive discussion when one person is a complete jerk who repeatedly hurls insults, one keeps posting contradictory statements and is too far gone inside a fantasy world to see the contradictions, and the moderators are awol and not enforcing the forum rules.

96
... the moderators are awol and not enforcing the forum rules.
Darron I appreciate the call out, though you and Doug are as guilty of abuse as the others in these AGW threads. (E.g., "idiot" is a term of abuse). Since it would not be proper to close all threads about global warming, I suggest you all figure out a way to discuss the matter without personal acrimony. If you do not feel that discussion is productive, it is best to move on to other matters. We do not generally have time or interest in flagging each improper word. If you feel that something deserves action it is best to alert one of us by PM or the above button.
97

Fair enough. I’ll dial back the rhetoric and stick to facts.

98
CC - You have been offered various articles that have explained how important glaciers are because of more reasons than simply how much water is released into rivers. But, that’s all there is for you. Everything else is irrelevant -
Huh? The few articles provided have either proved my point or talked about water storage in terms of stupid exaggerations and irrational arguments. You made some shallow allusion to refridgerator glaciers attracting weather of some bullshit, as though rocks don't get cold too. Then one of you guys tried a little "science experiment" with a warm rock and snow. How stupid.
your world you are good guys, and everyone else is bad guys
You're a good guy, I guess, I mean, probably, I don't know, who knows really? I have not given it any thought up to now really.
Glaciers are critically important for way more reasons than the water they discharge into a river!
Like what?
Oh yeah, back on point
What point? All I see is pointless bloviating.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/asian-pacific-business/massive-new-dams-remind-china-of-human-price-of-tofu-constructions/article13123199/?page=all
So the Chinese and the Indians build a lot of hydroelectric dams, so what? How does that make glaciers essential? WTF?
99
DarronS - This discussion might have some value if they would step in and enforce the site rules.
That's hilarious coming from a bunch of guys who want to put me in jail, fine me heavily, make me into a prison bitch, call me a psychopath and on and on and on. I'm not crying about it like a little pussy, I am ROTFLMAO. Guess what, if you want to be spoken to in a respectful way you have to knock off that kind of bullshit, else find out you are not dealing with a frightened little child you can intimidate.
Scare site = any site that publishes facts inconvenient to your narrative.
Link one that demonstrates glaciers on the inhabited continents are essential to human water supplies and I will be happy to change my position.
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DarronS - one person is a complete jerk who repeatedly hurls insults
Again, hilarious coming from a bunch of guys who want to fine me out of my earnings and then put me in jail. I really owe you guys so much courtesy thereby. Guess what, I am not going to bend over and say please sir may I have another.