OK now that is what really happens. The religious cannot stand when another doesn’t hare their delusion.
Indeed. Atheism is unforgivable in Islam even if you repent of it and become a believer, or a re-believer after lapse. And all non-Muslims are lapsed Muslims as all are born Muslim, but that is not unforgivable providing you never become atheist. Folk Christianity can be worse.
The story so far
My mind is split, the etymology, the ‘true sense’, of the Greek roots of the word schizophrenia, used as a colloquial metaphor for my state of mind being concurrently, superpositionedly overwhelming majority atheist and minority not.
Sorry for the senselessness of that.
Apparently you have an excuse. (please laugh at that statement)
I did. But I want no excuse. Liar. The Devil made me do it.
I maybe an only child, but my mother gave birth to twins and didn’t know it.
It was a joke. Me being an actual twin through astrology was not serious.
If you had a split personality, then you would be twins in one.
(It must be a Pond thing. I’m Pythonesquely English.)
I’m also a Pisces, we don’t believe in astrology
More killing of a joke. sigh.
Flip Wilson!? I’ve loved that guy for 50 years.
Yes, you are correct. The social sciences of human behavior relating to Paul’s Christianity is where you are on this subject. My strategy is to give as little time as possible to this pathway that most here hail as the only pathway worth debating and spend my time on Jesus’s Christianity.
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. The weather has been great, and I am trying to get three small roofing jobs done on the farm. I have just been running out of energy. Let’s see if we are on the same page. There can be no debate or logical discussion if you are unaware of my viewpoints.
Without civilization you most likely would not need philosophers, religions, or gods. People will fight wars for gods. But the gods are there because of civilizations. You will be working to pay for a civilization along with just about everyone else in the world today. The life you get from the civilization will vary from country to country. Some people will have to work harder than people in other countries do and will receive less in return from their civilization for their work. Who you are and what you think are influenced by the constitution you live by.
Two forces that are driving how well civilizations work are knowledge and wisdom or the lack of. The thinking is that the constitution determines the life and character of its people and with any change of constitution, the state becomes a different state.
So why should an atheist believe that a civilization needs religion? Just having the greatest constitution is still no good with out good morals. How do I know this? Wisdom tells me that after 10,000 years of mankind trying to build utopia. That I should follow the results and directions of people who are a lot brighter than me and not try to reinvent the wheel.
RECAP starting from Jesus’ time: A plague caused high death rate and unrest which opened the door for Paul’s Christianity deity religion that offered everlasting life to grow. The idea to have one state religion was politically played out and the deity Christianity won over Jesus’ Christianity religion of science.
All items relating to any religion other than Deity Christianity was destroyed. Jesus’ Christianity was call “Knowledge” and had been the main religion and was taught in the main religious colleges. Thus, a verbal understanding of the Religion of Knowledge was well deployed and understood over a broad area and time.
Jesus’ concept was moved into religious philosophy. Jesus was against the scribes interpreting and ruling on the Rules of Laws and wanted a separation of powers which was also later related by French philosopher Montesquieu. Who named the three major branches: executive, legislative, and judicial.
Then English philosopher Henry More, known for following Plato. Plato is known for the work call “the Republic”. More coined the name Gnostic used for Jesus’ Christianity religious ideas. Gnostic means “Knowledge”. Islamic Gnostics are labeled as neo-Platonic. The early philosophers were trying to establish the best civilization.
Gnostic understanding being a heresy to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrines. The Gnostic ideas seemed to have been accessible to the academically elite though out history.
Next was the French Revolution with new forms of moral religion emerging, including the deistic Cult of the Supreme Being and the atheistic Cult of Reason. In 1890 the era of Gnosis was declared restored. The Gnostic Catholic Apostolic Church and many others came to be. And there are still two small pockets of Jesus’ gnostic religion that have survived in the Middle East from the time of Jesus.
Just as the plague caused the growth of Paul’s Christianity. The Civil War and high immigration numbers caused Paul’s Christianity to expand again and take over the Jesus’ Christianity thinking in America.
In the 60-70’s independent researchers started to question Paul’s Christianity. The Vatican created teams of experts who could be sent to stop and discredit the researchers. The experts had access to the Vatican’s library and the history of Paul’s religion. This backfired. The experts became the Vatican’s problem. In 1988-9 the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Profession of Faith and Oath of Fidelity was established.
ttps://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19880701_professio-fidei_en.html The reason for the doctrine was some of the Vatican experts said Jesus may not have been crucified. This is important because it backed the Vatican off from destroying researchers who had different viewpoints, such as atheists. And in 1996 reiterated a 1950 viewpoint that evolution was a valid science was now accepted by the Vatican. END OF RECAP.
America is a great nation. Not because of what you and I have done. But because we are the result of millenniums of evolution of civilization techniques.
Our task should be to figure out how to keep high morals. We know this requires religion. We also know that gnostic religions have worked. Jesus is used in many religions for his teaching of morals. Gnosticism is the belief that human beings contain God within themselves. And they are human, not a deity. When you view it from this angle, then Jesus was a normal person and an atheist. The common factor between Paul’s and Jesus’ Christianity is Jesus. History has shown that atheists can have religion and were Christians. History also has shown us that Paul’s Christians will grow because of plagues, pandemics, and wars. Mainly due to after life. Atheists want to also extend life with science.
Common factor of all gods is that they possess some kind of knowledge. In Deity vs. Gnosticism, it would be Faith Knowledge vs. Science Knowledge. Jefferson was hoping that future Americans would view deities the same as one would view a fiction story. Which I do and think you do to. Point being, the America that was setup by the founding fathers is not yet complete until we get the gnostic religion up and operating to teach morals. The teachings should begin at a very young age. That is why we should be teaching religion science in schools until we get the Christianity science branch back up and operating.
You want to see atheism grow and be progressive? Back Jesus and Gnosticism.
IMO, Gods are representative of human vices and virtues . The various character traits that can be found in human societies and behaviors.
7 bad Gods of vice (7mortal sins), and a host of lesser demons
7 good Gods of virtue (7 human virtues), and a host of lesser angels
All over the map as usual. Your “recap” skipped the Dark Ages I believe.
And, no, we don’t “know this requires religion” or that “gnostic religions have worked.”
Yes, I skipped hundreds of items that backed up my viewpoints. My reply was much longer than I wanted.
And I don’t either. I am just following the actions of the Greeks, and what Europe did when they came out of the Dark Ages. Jefferson wanted the teachings of Jesus for morals, without any deities. And as you can see, I personally would like to have the science taught in schools.
Civilizations will never reach Utopia. America is the first nation established with gnostic ideas. So, far we are still operating. But the morals leave a lot to be desired. And I think most people will agree that religions promote morals. The list of great minds that have used gnostic is impressive.
Yea, Who is your favorite god?
Mine are the non-deity Upper and Lower gods of knowledge from the Rig Veda and the Pharaoh Ra gods of Egypt who’s job it was to go up and down the Nile from temple to temple and make sure the people were fat, happy, and loved. If not the Pharaoh would take some land from the temple and give it to the people.
Then it wouldn’t be atheism, now would it? Why back a man who never existed as he was written, if he ever existed at all? Gnosticism, the opposite of agnostic. How can you be sure you know what you know? There needs to be doubt and questioning before one reaches gnosis, if they ever do, and even then, how can you know for sure you do indeed have gnosis? Even the Gnostics questioned in order to reach gnosis and then they continued to question the gnosis. Of course, the gnostic even believed that we are all Christ crucified (see Joseph Campbell) and Jesus wasn’t an actual man, but rather a mystical figure head. So who is the Jesus you speak of and what is this gnosticism you refer to?
And think about that before you respond.
The teaching of the Greek gods was not based on a desire for knowledge, but on exercising control. The Dark Ages were a result of religious zealotry. It is “discoveries” that spurred the establishment of the Physical sciences and what makes the Universe work. Ever since then the role of religion in the Physical sciences has diminished Natural selection has reduced religion to only a “god of the gaps”.
But it is still strong in the Social sciences, such as moral behaviors .
But it is science , not religious enlightenment, that pulled Europe out of the Dark Ages
Jefferson wanted the teachings of Jesus for morals, without any deities. And as you can see, I personally would like to have the science taught in schools.
Yes, but now you are talking Social science and that has nothing to do with the Physical sciences