tl;dr. What’s your point mate? And the judge has thrown the case out of court, not the jury.
Can you clarify what you mean by that curious remark?
[Hammond… Kurvature 66]
Yuh, for instance: who are you talking to, and what are you talking about?
1 Like
[quote=“kurvature66, post:304, topic:7725”] billions of laptop computers in the hands of hundreds of thousands of scientific psychometry researchers has made your statement above no more than an anachronistic, old fashioned and antiquated, out of date mumbo-jumbo fallacy!
GH
[/quote]
Neither human nor artificial intelligence is proof of a god.
Numbers don’t prove a god. Numbers prove Mathematics!
Einsteinian curvature is an objective “Mathematical” reality (i.e. objective space-time)
Change the term “God” with the term “Mathematics” and you’ll have it right… 
[W4u said:]
“billions of laptop computers in the hands of hundreds of thousands of scientific psychometry researchers has made your statement above no more than an anachronistic, old fashioned and antiquated, out of date mumbo-jumbo fallacy!
GH”.
Neither human nor artificial intelligence is proof of a god.
Numbers don’t prove a god. Numbers prove Mathematics!
[kurvature66, post:264, topic:7725"]
" God is actually a (large) Einsteinian curvature of subjective reality (i.e. subjective space-time).
[W4u said:]
Einsteinian curvature is an objective “Mathematical” reality (i.e. objective space-time)
Change the term “God” with the term “Mathematics” and you’ll have it right…
[Hammond… Kurvature 66]
… Look, the radius of the “objective universe” is 10^25 miles. But the radius of the “subjective universe” is only about 5 miles! And since the curvature
K=1/R that means the curvature of “subjective reality” is 25 orders of magnitude LARGER than the curvature of “objective reality”! And since the curvature of “subjective reality” is a direct measurement of “God”, that means that the phenomenon of “God” has a very large perceptual impact on human reality… Why the hell do you think the entire world has been talking about it for 10,000 years for chrissakes!!
… This is a 21st-century, not the 20th century, wake up! The controversy is over, there actually is a physically REAL God, and scientific measurement by an army of researchers in 20 languages worldwide has now proved it experimentally to 2 decimal points. Get over it!
GH
[quote=“kurvature66, post:326, topic:7725”]
Why the hell do you think the entire world has been talking about it for 10,000 years for chrissakes!!
You don’t know the half of it. The world has been talking about an “invisible enemy” in the sky since before homo sapiens made its entrance . This is ancient fight or flight mechanism has been a survival strategy much longer than the emergence of mammals. It is a hard wired engram in our very cytoskeleton (microtubules).
Just consider the mechanics of single celled pseudopods and their defensive response to external irritation or active response to positive external stimulus.
We don’t even know yet how that happens because until recently we have not been able to look at nano scale objects. The electron microscope has changed all that .
… This is a 21st-century, not the 20th century, wake up! The controversy is over, there actually is a physically REAL God, and scientific measurement by an army of researchers in 20 languages worldwide has now proved it experimentally to 2 decimal points. Get over it!
GH
You’re right, this is the 21st century, not the 100th millenia before even the first depictions of sky beings were drawn on the walls of caves.
All natural phenomen once attributed to God have been debunked and replaced by deterministic relational physics and mathematical equations. There is no motivated metaphysical agency other than deterministic mathematical processes. Get over it!
God is Old. Even the NT has replaced God with a human being. Old God is obsolete.
Several Popes have declared that Darwinian evolution is true, debunking their own story of Adam and Eve and reducing it to
Do you think you can rewrite the history of both theism AND science at the same time?
Try a different approach and focus attention on the behavior of viruses, rather than people.
The secret social lives of viruses
Scientists are listening in on the ways viruses communicate and cooperate. Decoding what the microbes are saying could be a boon to human health.
Molecular biologist Bonnie Bassler and her graduate student Justin Silpe have found that viruses can use quorum-sensing chemicals released by bacteria to determine when best to start multiplying — and murdering9. Jun 18, 2019
[W4u wrote in post #326]
“Do you think you can rewrite the history of both theism AND science at the same time?”
[Hammond… Kurvature 66]
… Yes, it’s an accident of history! I discovered the SPOG (scientific proof of God) while 10 years into a physics investigation of “Psychometry”. For Pete’s sake, I was an atheist at the time, when I actually discovered the world’s first bona fide hard science SPOG. I practically fell on the floor when I realized it!!
… Of course, the discovery of the world’s first SPOG will automatically de facto"rewrite the history of both theism and science", that goes without saying! For 5000 years since the pyramids the world has been arguing about whether or not there is a God and if so what it is scientifically! Well now we know, and the thousand worldwide psychometry researchers in 20 languages produced the data which proves it, and they don’t even realize it! Why? I’ll tell you why: Because there isn’t one psychologist in the entire world who actually has a degree in physics. That’s why! And if you don’t think that’s a problem, you better think again.
GH
But that is just not true at a scientific level. Even religions have not been able to define the properties of God, other than that it was made in subjective human image, with human needs and desires. This is the official Scriptural “word” taught as truth.
As to science, what does a subjective psychometric god do that is not objectively described in GR?
Even if you are right, it makes the term God superfluous . The science would not change one bit. Take God away from religion and religion ceases to exist.
Even in mythology the Gods recognized that their existence depended on human beliefs and worship. How many gods have faded into the mist of history? There is no reason to make any exceptions. Your psychometric God also depends on a belief system which already exist in a different form in science.
How many gods can be described with science . It is science that has not confirmed the existence of gods. Science has debunked the existence of gods one by one.
Now you come along a declare that science has proved the existence of God because of the scientific metrics. If anything your “discovery” debunks monotheism once and for all.
The God of the gaps has just lost the one remaining gap.
[Hammond… Kurvature 66]
For 5000 years since the pyramids the world has been arguing about whether or not there is a God and if so what it is scientifically!
[W4u]
But that is just not true at a scientific level. Even religions have not been able to define the properties of God, other than that it was made in subjective human image, with human needs and desires. This is the official Scriptural “word” taught as truth.
[Hammond]
Na, that’s a simplistic view of religion, Religion actually knows all about the fact that “God” is a perceptual phenomenon of Man caused by the human condition (a.k.a. the human growth curve) and its effect on the perceptual ability of the human brain. You’re not old enough to be aware of this.
[W4u]
As to science, what does a subjective psychometric god do that is not objectively described in GR?
[Hammond]
GR is only concerned with the properties of “objective reality” and the “curvature of objective space-time”. On the other hand the “subjective psychometric God” as you call it, explains the (LARGE) noticeable and measurable “curvature of subjective space-time”.
So there is an “objective GR” and a “subjective GR” and the former is called “Gravity” in the letter is called “God”.
[W4u]
Even if you are right, it makes the term God superfluous . The science would not change one bit. Take God away from religion and religion ceases to exist.
[Hammond]
Science is the same in both Heaven and Earth and you cannot t “take God away from religion” because God has now been scientifically proved and you can’t take it away from religion unless you want to disprove science! IOW God is scientific fact!
[W4u]
Even in mythology the Gods recognized that their existence depended on human beliefs and worship. How many gods have faded into the mist of history? There is no reason to make any exceptions. Your psychometric God also depends on a belief system which already exist in a different form in science.
How many gods can be described with science . It is science that has not confirmed the existence of gods. Science has debunked the existence of gods one by one.
[Hammond]
…THAT’S DEAD WRONG SCIENTIFICALLY. Those thousands worldwide desktop computer psychometry researchers, have discovered enough data to overwhelmingly proof that the 13 2nd order eigenvectors in psychometry research, are NONE OTHER than the 12 Olympian gods of antiquity. The “gods” are now proven to be “personality types” caused by the cubic cleavage of the brain, and I’m the one that has discovered that. In ancient days the gods were Horus, Thoth, Anubis etc. in Egypt or Hercules, Apollo, Mercury in Greece and Rome or even today in America there known as Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck and Porky Pig! Modern science is no proven that they are 2nd order eigenvectors (personality types) in psychometry research. Debunking the gods is an atheistic pastime which now lies on the ash heap of history!
[W4u]
Now you come along a declare that science has proved the existence of God because of the scientific metrics. If anything your “discovery” debunks monotheism once and for all.
The God of the gaps has just lost the one remaining gap.
[Hammond]
…That’s a lot of baloney, you’re like a drowning man clutching at straws to stay afloat, your atheistic arguments have been utterly destroyed by the discovery and overwhelming proof of the world’s first SPOG.
GH
[Postscript: Hammond]
… W4u is not the only one who is taking issue with me. I have been posting to the Jisc Psychometry Internet discussion list IDANET for more than 30 years, but recently I posted a message entitled: THE GEORGE HAMMOND CONSPPIRACY and the IDANET list owner whom I’ve known for 30 years got ticked off and these posts appeared!
Latest Messages
[Re: George Hammond has been removed from idanet]
Nigel van Zwanenberg Fri, 31 Dec 2021
[Re: George Hammond has been removed from Idanet
Philip Vernon Fri, 31 Dec 2021
[Re: George Hammond has been removed from idanet] Liam Healy Fri, 31 Dec 2021
So I guess the list owner Paul Barrett turns out to be one of the members of the conspiracy!
GH
But what does your God do that is essential to the existence of the universe, other than what we know through science?
Theistic Sophistry, you haven’t proven a thing to me and you cannot claim that the concept is too subtle for the ordinary mind to “behold”.
Numbers do not prove anything. they can help in making something manifest (Higgs boson) . Can you make Your Psychometric God manifest?
To me it’s just another story among 5000 gods that have come and gone.
Are you going to rewrite the book from “In the Beginning”? Or are you going to use science to explain all the natural phenomena and just label it as Psychometric God did it? What exactly does your “discovery” change? How does it affect me?
Do I need to believe to find benefit from this knowledge, or can I ignore it at will?
[Kurvature66, post:330, wrote]
Science is the same in both Heaven and Earth and you cannot t “take God away from religion” because God has now been scientifically proved and you can’t take it away from religion unless you want to disprove science! IOW God is scientific fact!
[W4u]
But what does your God do that is essential to the existence of the universe, other than what we know through science?
[Kurvature66, post:330, wrote]
… God is essential to the existence of Man! I’ll leave it to you to argue whether or not the universe would exist if Man didn’t exist. But you can’t argue anything if Man doesn’t a priori exist.
[kurvature66, wrote]
…THAT’S DEAD WRONG SCIENTIFICALLY. Those thousands worldwide desktop computer psychometry researchers, have discovered enough data to overwhelmingly proof that the 13 2nd order eigenvectors in psychometry research, are NONE OTHER than the 12 Olympian gods of antiquity. The “gods” are now proven to be “personality types” caused by the cubic cleavage of the brain, and I’m the one that has discovered that. In ancient days the gods were Horus, Thoth, Anubis etc. in Egypt or Hercules, Apollo, Mercury in Greece and Rome or even today in America there known as Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck and Porky Pig! Modern science is no proven that they are 2nd order eigenvectors (personality types) in psychometry research. Debunking the gods is an atheistic pastime which now lies on the ash heap of history!
[W5u wrote]
Theistic Sophistry, you haven’t proven a thing to me
[Hammond says]
Hey, you can’t prove anything to anybody that buries his head in the sand like an ostrich and simply ignores everything
[W4u continues]
and you cannot claim that the concept is too subtle for the ordinary mind to “behold”.
[Hammond says:]
GR tensor analysis is too subtle for the ordinary mind to behold. There are many things too subtle for the ordinary mind to behold unless they’re “dumbed down” to elementary levels.
[W4u continues:]
Numbers do not prove anything. they can help in making something manifest (Higgs boson) . Can you make Your Psychometric God manifest?
[Hammond says:]
God is absolutely clearly manifest to every single person who has eyes to see, the problem is that they simply don’t realize that that which they can easily see but which they don’t bother to try and figure out, is what the church and religious people are talking about! The reason for the massive obfuscation in religious writing is the history of religion in which no one was permitted to talk openly about the obvious upon pain of arrest, torture, crucifixion, or being burned at the stake! It is only today that you can talk in plain scientific language of personality, and psychology, and human perception which the body can see Nolan used to talk about.
… So God is “visibly manifest” in fact can “scientifically measured”— never mind “manifest”, you can scientifically measure it !! If that is an manifest I don’t know what is! After all, you just said when they “measure the Higgs boson” – it was “made manifest”, to use your own words
[W4u said:]
To me it’s just another story among 5000 gods that have come and gone.
[Hammond replied:]
… Modern psychometry and neurology has proven that there are exactly 13 2nd order personality eigenvectors in ordinary parlance that means there are exactly 13 personality types in the human race, worldwide! However these 13 personality types have different names in different countries and different languages and since there are 250 countries in the world it makes it look like there are 250x13=3,250 gods, but there aren’t, there are only 13 because the brain is cubically cleaved and a cube has exactly 13 rotational symmetry axes which produces exactly 13 2nd order personality eigenvectors! How many times do I have to say it?
[W4u]
Are you going to rewrite the book from “In the Beginning”? Or are you going to use science to explain all the natural phenomena and just label it as Psychometric God did it? What exactly does your “discovery” change? How does it affect me?
Do I need to believe to find benefit from this knowledge, or can I ignore it at will?
[Hammond says:]
don’t kid yourself, for the first time in 5000 years, for the first time in the history of civilization we have an absolutely hard science rigorous proof of the existence of God and explanation of what it is and you don’t think that’s going to affect religious belief… you’ve got to be kidding, it will probably double of power of religion, probably unify all of the major religions. Is going to become a hell of a lot harder to walk around saying you’re an atheist when an airtight hard science experimentally confirmed scientific proof of God is sitting on the table! What do you mean "how does it affect me? Well it won’t, if you want to go somewhere and live in a cave or something, but if you stay in society you won’t be able to ignore it, I can guarantee you!
GH
PS: don’t go away mad, you’re the only one I ran into who actually knows a lot about microtubules and actually perceives that there probably at the root of human consciousness! And why that’s important!
You believe mankind is important to the universe? You have to be kidding.
To the universe we are a small collection of biomolecules, to the earth we are a surface nuisance.
Well, tell your story to the Neanderthals. I can’t be so kind about it. Humans are a product of stochastic mathematics, that’s all. A lucky (for us) mutation.
Homo Sapiens is a result of the fusion of 2 chromosomes in our common ancestor with the other hominoid apes. If you like I’ll prove it to you.
Man is only important to man and a danger to all other natural forms of life.
Humans are in fact a detriment to the natural world. We are too smart for our own good.
[Hammond… Kurvature66]
Look, lets get to the point! You said in post #332 that the detection and measurement of the Higgs boson in the Hadron supercollider made the existence of the heretofore only “theoretically predicted” Higgs boson"manifest."And then you asked me: “Can you make Your Psychometric God manifest?”
…And the answer is YES! The 50 yr worldwide, peer-published Psychometry literature HAS resulted in the discovery of the widely known (General Factor of Psychology) “GFP” a single-top-lone-eigenvector and yet no one knows what it is even though it is routinely measured to 2 decimal points!! But I have meantime shown that the 13-2nd order factors in the factor pyramid are clearly the 12 Olympian gods of antiquity and this alone clearly indicates that the top eigenvector is most likely the God of the Bible. But the clincher is when I discovered that the 3rd order 4x4 eigenvector matrix, the psychometry metric itself, consists of 3 space dimensions and 1 time dimension and is NOT diagonal, therefore it is an “Einsteinian curvature of subjective space-time”. This immediately explains the historically observed (Biblical) phenomenology of God, thus making the identification of the top eigenvector in psychology to be the God of the Bible, absolutely irrefutable !!
…So to answer your question “God” has now been shown to be just as subsantially experimentally “manifested” as the Higgs Boson ! So not only does the theoretically predicted Higgs turn out to be real, the God of the Bible which has been theoretically predicted for 2000 years turns out also to be real! …QED
… Please don’t bore me with further metaphysical and philosophical meandering, simply tell me why you don’t believe the above facts proved that there is a real God !
GH
An imaginary being is essential to the existence of Man, thereby keeping them in a childlike mind? How quaint. Sorry, human beings can survive without an imaginary being.
1 Like
And this is a physical phenomenon? I get a lot of scientific news, but have never heard of the GFP (General Factor of Psychology), when we don’t even know how the psyche (conscious thought) becomes manifest.
Moreover, how that GFP is causal to anything, including “life after death” seems like a reach too far.
How exactly does this impact the physical world ? Should we worship Gravity?
Is there a handbook of GFP practices and fellowship?
Can you show me peer-reviewed test results . You see, the thing is that billions of people believe in scripture as the devine revelation, despite the fact that science has proven God is a FOI (Figment Of Imagination). Is that something like Tononi’s “phi”
But if I understand your claim, God is a GFP (General Factor of Psychology)? What’s the difference? Numbers, values, functions, equations, formulas?
Mathematics, I could agree with that. But I would never call it God and throw the world into war and confusion.
Remember God’s promise: “I shall confound their language”
[quote=“citizenschallengev3, post:19, topic:7725”]
I figured you’d agree. Hey, I just saw this, microtubules gets a mention. This time in relation to consciousness, which you’ve brought up before.
You’re saying that Evolution on Earth is a myth?
Please clarify.
(7.02) Appreciating the Physical Reality ~ Human Mindscape divide
I can’t figure out, why isn’t it self-evident that consciousness and mind can’t be understood by studying modern people in these modern times? It requires an evolutionary perspective of the natural, biological forces at work. First producing simple creatures that eventually evolved into complex creatures, with branches that eventually evolved into Homo during the last minute+ of Evolution’s 24 hours of Creation, only then into Homo sapiens a mere 3, 4 seconds ago.
How does one ponder the human brain and mind without wondering about all the time before Homo? We evolved out of the mammalian class of animals. Think about it, the breast-feeding body plan with a lifestyle built around nurturing their young, developing families and even communities.
Physical Reality is the physical world of atoms, molecules, universal laws of physics, biology and Earth’s laws of nature. It is Earth’s dance between geology and biology and time and Earth’s evolving creatures. F or this discussion, one in particular, one that learned to contemplate the universe along with its own short life and its coming death.
Human Mindscape is all that goes on inside of our minds. The landscape of our thoughts and desires and impulses and those various voices and personalities who inhabit our thoughts and Being. The ineffable ideas that our hands can turn into physical reality and change our planet.
The me, myself and I , and all that unfolds within the thoughts just beyond the biological sparks and chemical cascades unfolding within our physical bodies and brains as they navigate their environments. …
(7.01) An Alternative Philosophical Perspective - “Earth Centrism”
WHY? Because you say so?
Components of General Intelligence
There are several key components that are believed to make up general intelligence. these include:
- Fluid reasoning : This involves the ability to think flexibly and solve problems.
- Knowledge : This is a person’s general understanding of a wide range of topics and can be equated with crystallized intelligence.
- Quantitative reasoning : This involves an individual’s capacity to solve problems that involve numbers.
- Visual-spatial processing : This relates to a person’s abilities to interpret and manipulate visual information, such as putting together puzzles and copying complex shapes.
- Working memory : This involves the use of short-term memory such as being able to repeat a list of items.
Why are you imbuing this with supernatural powers?
What 50 years worth of research, where has it disseminated beyond a tiny group of participants?
I don’t know your math, but I know when I look up “Psychometry” I find stuff like this:
Psychometry (from Greek: ψυχή, psukhē, “spirit, soul” and μέτρον, metron, “measure”), also known as token-object reading, or psychoscopy, is a form of extrasensory perception characterized by the claimed ability to make relevant associations from an object of unknown history by making physical contact with that object .
That make me think of The Amazing Randi - but you’re pounding the table telling us you have proof. Proof of what really?
“personality types” My god how doesn’t that totally depend on how one choses to define and classify - with any two experts coming up with a slightly different take? Can provide this list of “13 personality types”
The answer of course is that the 13-2nd orders are geometrically cubically symmetric".** **Only 3 of the 13 are actually orthogonal, the 3 normals to the cube, namely Eysenck’s E,N,P ! This means that all 10 of the oblique factors will “collapse” onto the 3 normals and leave you with only E,N,P at the 3rd order. It is this geometric collapse of the eigenvectors that defies Thurstone’s rule.
It’s just words on top of words. What about Apes, how many personality eigenvectors do they have and how do they relate to humans?
[citizenschallengev4 said in post#338]
[Hammond… Kurvature 66]
The answer of course is that the 13-2nd orders are geometrically cubically symmetric. Only 3 of the 13 are actually orthogonal, the 3 normals to the cube, namely Eysenck’s E,N,P ! This means that all 10 of the oblique factors will “collapse” onto the 3 normals and leave you with only E,N,P at the 3rd order. It is this geometric collapse of the eigenvectors that defies Thurstone’s rule.
[citizenschallengev4 said in post#338]
It’s just words on top of words. What about Apes, how many personality eigenvectors do they have and how do they relate to humans?
[Hammond… Kurvature 66]
… Any animal species that has a brain manifests 13 personality types. In humans these 13 personality types have been known for 2500 years as the 12- Olympian gods which preceded Christianity (which finally discovered the 4th order psychometric eigenvector called “God”… Of course the 13 gods still exist today and are known as “personality types”… And popularly known in modern culture as "Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Bugs Bunny, Porky pig, etc. etc.).
… The Scientific reason why the brain has 13 personality possibilities is because it is CUBICALLY CLEAVED in the earliest stages of embryology, right back to the 8 cell stage of egg cleavage! Here’s a picture that clarifies that:
… So yes, humans, dogs, cats, horses, alligators, mice, fish, etc. etc. all manifest EXACTLY 13 different personality types. The animals well aware of the “13 gods”, and if you’ve ever seen a couple of stags clashing it out with their horns over some hot female, you can be sure they’re probably of 2 opposing personality types such as Apollo and Scorpio (Hades)!
GH
[write4u, post:337, topic:7725, said:
[kurvature66, post:335, topic 7725 said:]
…And the answer is YES ! The 50 yr worldwide, peer-published Psychometry literature HAS resulted in the discovery of the widely known (General Factor of Psychology) “ GFP ” a single-top-lone-eigenvector and yet no one knows what it is even though it is routinely measured to 2 decimal points!!
[W4u said:]
“… I get a lot of scientific news, but have never heard of the GFP (General Factor of Psychology)”
[Hammond… Kurvature 66]
… If you type ““GFP” in Psychology” into a Google search you will get 465,000 hits. You can read all about it, but I’ll save you some time, extensive testing in many languages using personality tests, results in an “eigenvector pyramid”:
Copyright George Hammond 2022
GH