What if you are a brain in a body, just a mass of mitochondria and DNA and you had no thoughts before you were born and you learned through experience. And, of course, despite it being unprovable, there are 7 billion others like you. What if?I can't help it, I read these posts and the voices just come to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgnwjwN97cI :)
Speaking of nothing being about to know, how can one know things continue to exist (if they ever did) when you aren't looking at themHere's a great answer to the next thread you will start, now that you have had all your questions answered for this one.]
Engaging TM is a waste of time. He believes everything is pointless, so why bother discussing anything with him? He asks simplistic questions and rejects every answer. What is the point of discussing things with him?
Engaging TM is a waste of time. He believes everything is pointless, so why bother discussing anything with him? He asks simplistic questions and rejects every answer. What is the point of discussing things with him?It's not like "discussing" in any normal sense of the word. It's more like chasing a butterfly. Catching it is kind of an empty victory. I don't want to keep him in a jar or mount him on a board. The fun is in the chase, and get exercise doing it. It's kind of like catch and release. He thinks he escapes, but actually I just let him go.
Why study philosophy? I know the answer for me but it may not fit you all that well. When I first studied any of it I felt like it amounted to something similar to he said, she said arguments. Thus I was more confused after studying it than before. But at least that proved I was not brain dead, if so I would have ben unable to become more confused. That's my reason and I'm sticking to it.For me philosophy isn't so much a body of knowledge as a way of thinking. It clarifies your thoughts and helps you to weed out the obviously wrong answers, so that you hopefully get closer to the truth. Not that you'll ever be certain; not being certain is what philosophy is all about. But you'll hopefully understand WHY you can't be certain, and that's a big help.Good point. If you think of philosophy as a way to think critically then it's worth it. If you look at it as a path to The Truth, you'll only get frustrated. I found out too late (after wasting lots of money on an undergrad degree and a year of grad school) that the big stuff, while fun, is usually just a very smart person making their subjective musings sound like objective "investigation". And doing so within an accepted vocabulary that seems to make sense but really doesn't. So then you agree that it is pointless? It claims to seek truth but it cannot provide truth and ultimately states that reality is belief based.Pointless if you seek objective truth. Very useful if you seek a way to critically think about things, especially real things. Also, there's no "it" as in how you're talking about it as something that seeks truth. There's just a bunch of people who practice it, and mostly they have switched to seeking ultimate truths to using the critical thinking aspects to enlighten others as to ethics, methodologies, etc. And there's much more of a focus on language as it applies to the real world. Some still tackle the big questions but they're just fooling themselves because of various reasons, and the fact that it's fun.
Speaking of nothing being about to know, how can one know things continue to exist (if they ever did) when you aren't looking at themHere's a great answer to the next thread you will start, now that you have had all your questions answered for this one.] I'm no PZ Myers fan, but I gotta give credit where credit is due. That was pretty good. Of course, it's just as easy asking, Were you there 6,000 years ago when God said poof. Were you there in the back rooms listening in while the books were written and sorted? etc.
Write4U said: What flaws? If I hit you on the head with a ball-peen hammer and there are 10 witnesses, can I make an argument that all those witnesses cannot testify because their observations are all flawed. That's a good defense? p.s. are you writing your posts or am I hallucinating because you do not exist in my reality (proximity)?
Titano said: Essentially yes. They can all say they didn't see anything.BUt that's beside the point of your whole statement being moot if you cannot verify an external reality to exist independent of you or the existence of others. Not to mention how pointless life would be if it was all imaginary (and not to mention it would negate anything you said).
No no, you have it backwards, MY life is pointless to YOU, but it is meaningful to ME. Therefore I exist. I might add that your life also seems pointless to you. Therefore, by your own argument, you are making the claim that you don't exist. Normally the person making the claim has the burden of proof. But in your case I'll not hold you to that. That would be pointless. :bug:
That logic is not sound. If it is all imaginary then it is meaningless no matter what you do..You keep repeating the question "IF" it's all imaginary it would be meaningless. Well, one could also ask if pigs could fly.. That would be a meaningless question.
I thought you studied philosophy, or are is such terrible logic another case about why it is pointless?Your logic ???
You also have not addressed my point in that if we cannot prove the existence of other minds and and external reality then it is meaningless to live.If we cannot prove the existence of anything it is meaningless. But we can and have proved many things, so your question "IF" is moot. We can, we have, and we will. I do not need to prove that other minds exist, only that physical things exist, and other scientific minds have proved that in every way possible. I did not write the theory of Relativity, I did not write the theory of Quantum Mechanics. If that is all a product of my imagination, my life would be extremely meaningful to me and the rest of our society
As I have said, if it is all imaginary then your life is meaningless and pointless (the only way to avoid this fact is to BELIEVE otherwise, another case of how philosophy fails to be of use.Can we test your hypothesis, by me hitting you on the head with a hammer. If it's all imaginary then no harm done, right? I can just imagine the crowd we could gather to witness the event. Hell, we could put this on PPV and become rich. Will you give me rights of survivorship of the proceeds? p.s. Seems your education in philosophy stopped at "Row,row, row your boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, life is but a dream". There, I have provided proof that you are right. I have just given meaning to your life. :coolsmile:
Speaking of nothing being about to know, how can one know things continue to exist (if they ever did) when you aren't looking at themHere's a great answer to the next thread you will start, now that you have had all your questions answered for this one.] You haven't answered my questions for this thread, do you get tired of being wrong?
Speaking of nothing being about to know, how can one know things continue to exist (if they ever did) when you aren't looking at themHere's a great answer to the next thread you will start, now that you have had all your questions answered for this one.] You haven't answered my questions for this thread, do you get tired of being wrong? What questions didn't l answer?
Write4U said: What flaws? If I hit you on the head with a ball-peen hammer and there are 10 witnesses, can I make an argument that all those witnesses cannot testify because their observations are all flawed. That's a good defense? p.s. are you writing your posts or am I hallucinating because you do not exist in my reality (proximity)?Titano said: Essentially yes. They can all say they didn't see anything.BUt that's beside the point of your whole statement being moot if you cannot verify an external reality to exist independent of you or the existence of others. Not to mention how pointless life would be if it was all imaginary (and not to mention it would negate anything you said).
No no, you have it backwards, MY life is pointless to YOU, but it is meaningful to ME. Therefore I exist. I might add that your life also seems pointless to you. Therefore, by your own argument, you are making the claim that you don't exist. Normally the person making the claim has the burden of proof. But in your case I'll not hold you to that. That would be pointless. :bug:
That logic is not sound. If it is all imaginary then it is meaningless no matter what you do..You keep repeating the question "IF" it's all imaginary it would be meaningless. Well, one could also ask if pigs could fly.. That would be a meaningless question.
I thought you studied philosophy, or are is such terrible logic another case about why it is pointless?Your logic ???
You also have not addressed my point in that if we cannot prove the existence of other minds and and external reality then it is meaningless to live.If we cannot prove the existence of anything it is meaningless. But we can and have proved many things, so your question "IF" is moot. We can, we have, and we will. I do not need to prove that other minds exist, only that physical things exist, and other scientific minds have proved that in every way possible. I did not write the theory of Relativity, I did not write the theory of Quantum Mechanics. If that is all a product of my imagination, my life would be extremely meaningful to me and the rest of our society
As I have said, if it is all imaginary then your life is meaningless and pointless (the only way to avoid this fact is to BELIEVE otherwise, another case of how philosophy fails to be of use.Can we test your hypothesis, by me hitting you on the head with a hammer. If it's all imaginary then no harm done, right? I can just imagine the crowd we could gather to witness the event. Hell, we could put this on PPV and become rich. Will you give me rights of survivorship of the proceeds? p.s. Seems your education in philosophy stopped at "Row,row, row your boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, life is but a dream". There, I have provided proof that you are right. I have just given meaning to your life. :coolsmile: You cannot give meaning because it doesn't exist. We haven't proven anything because you cannot prove anything. It is mainly just belief because at the most base level (which is a foundation for everything else) we cannot prove anything. We cannot prove that physical things even exist. I say if because we cannot known if it is real or not. The implications for it being imaginary are more serious then it being real. If you believe this to be real but in the end find it to be imaginary, then you have just wasted your entire life on an illusion.
Engaging TM is a waste of time. He believes everything is pointless, so why bother discussing anything with him? He asks simplistic questions and rejects every answer. What is the point of discussing things with him?If you paid attention to previous threads I have said I don't want to believe everything is pointless (which is irrelevant to this thread) but I haven't heard any convincing arguments for the opposite side. And the questions I ask are far from simple if I am still asking them. Your lack of ability to answer doesn't change that.
Speaking of nothing being about to know, how can one know things continue to exist (if they ever did) when you aren't looking at themHere's a great answer to the next thread you will start, now that you have had all your questions answered for this one.] You haven't answered my questions for this thread, do you get tired of being wrong? What questions didn't l answer? Any of them. Like about this being imaginary and if you believe it real then you are just wasting your life, or how it being imaginary makes anything in regards to ethnics moot. It makes life pointless and null as you are alone in the dream.
Speaking of nothing being about to know, how can one know things continue to exist (if they ever did) when you aren't looking at themHere's a great answer to the next thread you will start, now that you have had all your questions answered for this one.] You haven't answered my questions for this thread, do you get tired of being wrong? What questions didn't l answer? Any of them. Like about this being imaginary and if you believe it real then you are just wasting your life, or how it being imaginary makes anything in regards to ethnics moot. It makes life pointless and null as you are alone in the dream. Those aren't questions. That could explain why I didn't answer them.
I did not follow the thread extensively, so maybe this was already said by somebody:
Titanomachina, the answer to your question is pretty easy: for you there is no reason to study philosophy. Quite the opposite: it shows that philosophy does you no good. Philosophy obviously makes you only more depressed, which is an important reason to absolutely refrain from it.
But this not necessarily true for others. For people who are more connected to people, their activities, to nature, etc, philosophy enriches their lives.
So please don’t. Stop puzzling your head off. Philosophy is not for you.
I did not follow the thread extensively, so maybe this was already said by somebody: Titanomachina, the answer to your question is pretty easy: for you there is no reason to study philosophy. Quite the opposite: it shows that philosophy does you no good. Philosophy obviously makes you only more depressed, which is an important reason to absolutely refrain from it. But this not necessarily true for others. For people who are more connected to people, their activities, to nature, etc, philosophy enriches their lives. So please don't. Stop puzzling your head off. Philosophy is not for you.Except I have to wonder why other people think so much of it, and I'm not alone in finding it useless during the study. The people I have asked about this before said that it's good to just stop with logic, because delving further into philosophy will just make you depressed or commit suicide. I believe the words were "bottomless pit" when they told me that. It will break your heart, test your allegiances, and severe you from others. Frankly I have to agree. Anyone who says they have gained anything from it must be doing something wrong or watering it down, or just cherry picking and avoiding the deeper issues.
Speaking of nothing being about to know, how can one know things continue to exist (if they ever did) when you aren't looking at themHere's a great answer to the next thread you will start, now that you have had all your questions answered for this one.] You haven't answered my questions for this thread, do you get tired of being wrong? What questions didn't l answer? Any of them. Like about this being imaginary and if you believe it real then you are just wasting your life, or how it being imaginary makes anything in regards to ethnics moot. It makes life pointless and null as you are alone in the dream. Those aren't questions. That could explain why I didn't answer them. They are, you are simply incapable of answering them, as I have come to expect.
Questions have question marks at the end.
Except I have to wonder why other people think so much of it, and I'm not alone in finding it useless during the study. The people I have asked about this before said that it's good to just stop with logic, because delving further into philosophy will just make you depressed or commit suicide. I believe the words were "bottomless pit" when they told me that. It will break your heart, test your allegiances, and severe you from others. Frankly I have to agree. Anyone who says they have gained anything from it must be doing something wrong or watering it down, or just cherry picking and avoiding the deeper issues.That sounds like anyone who does not agree with me is wrong. I propose you ask people who finished their study in philosophy, not the ones that stopped disappointedly because philosophy is not a salvation teaching. And I think that who asks questions about the value of humans, who is depressed under a solipsist view, has not looked deep enough. Somebody who makes his meaning of life dependent on supposed definite answers on philosophical questions, has only scratched the surface. You are hiding your personal problems behind philosophical questions. Go see a psychiatrist, and get anti-depressants. But don't try to dive into the deep without personal coaching. It will kill you.
The internet is the amazing thing where you can find people who think like you do. That is also one of the worst things about it.
It’s like any other tool. You have to use it correctly. It’s a tool for information, so it’s important that you look for both sides of a debate. It’s important just to know what is debatable. It’s important to know what “proof” means. If you are looking for 100% certainty, you are in the wrong place.
Acquiring knowledge will tell you there is no such thing as certainty. Unfortunately, once you know that, it’s impossible to un-know it. But it’s better to be one of the people who knows it, instead of being controlled by the people who know it, but tell you that you can be 100% certain, as long as you only read their books and don’t ask the wrong questions.