# Where did the situation in Afghanistan fail?
**URL:** https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240
**Category:** General Discussion
**Created:** [August 27, 2021, 3:39am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240 "2021-08-27T03:39:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2021, 12:00pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/21 "2021-09-01T12:00:00Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#):
>
> We’ve done business with worse governments in the past.
That’s not a very good bar to set. Reagan got in a bit of trouble for trading drug money to fight terrorism. We set up our own problems by installing a Shah in Iran. At this point, it’s a stretch to say Afghanistan has a legitimate government
---
### Author:  [@mrmhead](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mrmhead)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2021, 11:20pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/22 "2021-09-01T23:20:08Z")
> [@lausten](#):
>
> That’s not a very good bar to set. Reagan got in a bit of trouble for trading drug money to fight terrorism. We set up our own problems by installing a Shah in Iran. At this point, it’s a stretch to say Afghanistan has a legitimate government
But do they have a legitimate product? 😉
Along with rare earths, is their opium still a source for our med-morph?
We don’t have to be “friends” to work together. Look at the Russian-US space co-operation. Thankfully that mostly stayed out of the fray between various administrations.
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### Author:  [@mitch70](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mitch70)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2021, 4:32am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/23 "2021-09-06T04:32:21Z")
> [@lausten](#):
>
> We can 't make cellphones is we don’t have world peace.
please why do you say this?
---
### Author:  [@mitch70](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mitch70)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2021, 4:34am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/24 "2021-09-06T04:34:58Z")
> [@write4u](#):
>
> Afghanistan is a theocracy. You cannot install a secular democracy in a centuries old theocracy.
>
> Besides, you can never win occupying another country. Regardless of your intentions, you just don’t belong and you will always be seen as the occupier, the interloper.
So why go there in the first place?
---
### Author:  [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2021, 5:04am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/25 "2021-09-06T05:04:45Z")
[quote=“mitch70, post:24, topic:8240”]
> So why go there in the first place?
To get the SOB that masterminded 9/11
---
### Author:  [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2021, 11:55am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/26 "2021-09-06T11:55:04Z")
> [@mitch70](#):
>
> please why do you say this?
It should say, “we can’t make cellphones if we don’t have world peace”. I say it because the parts that go into cellphones come from all over the world. There are rare metals that are only found in certain places.
The idea of peace being needed for commerce is as old as commerce, so it also just generally true. Progress has always been the result of having enough peace so some people can focus on innovation. This includes medical progress.
How we achieve peace is also important. It’s been a major debate for a 100 years now.
---
### Author:  [@mitch70](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mitch70)
#### Post date: [September 8, 2021, 6:29am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/27 "2021-09-08T06:29:57Z")
[quote=“write4u, post:25, topic:8240, full:true”]
> [@mitch70](#):
>
> > So why go there in the first place?
>
> To get the SOB that masterminded 9/11
Wait what? After 20 years you’re still looking for the mastermind?
If there had been one so diabolically genius as GWBjr then I would have thought at least one of his thousand minions over the years could have possibly come out.
Other than Obama being a Muslim from Kenya, I can’t think of any other conspiracy theory that’s not yet 100% proven to be absolutely factual. There’s a point, even as crappy as it may seem, to just let go of old ideas of right and wrong. What’s happening now is far more important, and everything else is just a distraction. BTW Did you know for years China has been screwing my wife’s country (Hong Kong) years violating their own agreement with the acquisition? No probably not, and I don’t blame you, but it’s coming here now fast and soon. To me, that seems like a bigger problem that we should be worried about in America.
---
### Author:  [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)
#### Post date: [September 8, 2021, 8:51am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/28 "2021-09-08T08:51:27Z")
[quote=“mitch70, post:24, topic:8240”]
> So why go there in the first place?
[quote = w4u]
> To get the SOB that masterminded 9/11
[quote=“mitch70, post:27, topic:8240”]
> Wait what? After 20 years you’re still looking for the mastermind?
That has nothing to do with your original question. Have you forgotten?
---
### Author:  [@citizenschallengev4](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/citizenschallengev4)
#### Post date: [September 8, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/29 "2021-09-08T16:34:47Z")
> [@mitch70](#):
>
> Other than Obama being a Muslim from Kenya, I can’t think of any other conspiracy theory that’s not yet 100% proven to be absolutely factual.
I been trying to figure out who you are, cause once in a while you make sense to me,
then you come up with a bomb shell like that and I can better appreciate the seeming contempt some show for you. Like WTF is that about? What are you even trying to say with the car wreck of words? Is it all about dog whistle thinking, if you ain’t ‘in’, you don’t need to get it?
---
### Author:  [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)
#### Post date: [September 8, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/30 "2021-09-08T16:48:10Z")
[quote=“mitch70, post:27, topic:8240”]
> Other than Obama being a Muslim from Kenya, I can’t think of any other conspiracy theory that’s not yet 100% proven to be absolutely factual
I’m not going to let that pass. You are going to have to come up with proof of that unacceptable allegation.
If you don’t retract that BIG LIE, I will brand you with a similar slur . Let’s see how you like that.
Other than You being a Neo-Nazi Troll from Hell, I can’t think of any other conspiracy theory that’s not yet 100% proven to be absolutely factual.
---
### Author:  [@citizenschallengev4](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/citizenschallengev4)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2021, 1:57pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/31 "2021-09-10T13:57:42Z")
Big man Mitch, all crickets ?
What up?
---
### Author:  [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2021, 12:07pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/32 "2021-09-11T12:07:42Z")
> [@mitch70](#):
>
> Wait what? After 20 years you’re still looking for the mastermind?
@mitch70, you are seriously trolling. You asked “why go there?” Our original premise was to get bin Laden, and he was actually there, so it wasn’t a lie. You didn’t ask, “why did we stay there?” but you attacked Write4U’s answer as if you did ask that. You keep posting things that we all know, things that are easy to know if you just listen to the right news sources. But you speak like you know more. If you do know more, then anyone here would gladly be informed by you. But you aren’t informative, you are argumentative.
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### Author:  [@djtexas](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/djtexas)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2021, 1:03pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/33 "2021-09-11T13:03:02Z")
“Our original premise was to get bin Laden”
After all that we know about the events leading to the invasion of afganistan and the mess it finds itself in now since then, how can anyone who says this be taken seriously?
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### Author:  [@djtexas](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/djtexas)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2021, 1:10pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/34 "2021-09-11T13:10:52Z")
"You didn’t ask, “why did we stay there?” but you attacked Write4U’s answer as if you did ask that. "
He mocks quite rightly Write4 U belief that USA goal for invading afganistan was to get the mastermind by pointing out that USA were still occupying Afganistan 10 years after bin Laden’s death
---
### Author:  [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2021, 1:43pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/35 "2021-09-11T13:43:23Z")
> [@djtexas](#):
>
> how can anyone who says this be taken seriously?
When I said “our premise” I was not speaking as some authority for the American mind. There is no such thing as a consensus of thought in America anyway. I could have chosen my words differently, by saying “the original excuses that politicians gave for sending military to Afghanistan”.
Thing is, with you, @djtexas, it doesn’t matter what words anyone uses, you will find fault with them. Your goal is not to build a dialog or discover anything with anyone. Your goal is to claim superior intellect, avoid direct questions, and maintain control of the conversation for your personal pleasure.
All of these behaviors can result in you being banned from this forum.
---
### Author:  [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2021, 1:49pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/36 "2021-09-11T13:49:32Z")
> [@djtexas](#):
>
> He mocks quite rightly
I was not mocking anyone. I pointed out that a decision was made in the Bush White House to go into Afghanistan. Years later, with different people in Congress and a very different President and a different situation in Afghanistan, a decision was made to stay. You are the one who is trying to make up a story where there was one line of thought that persisted throughout the 20 years. The closest thing to that would be the weapons manufacturers, but they don’t make policy, they just know that war will happen somewhere and they can profit from it.
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### Author:  [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2021, 1:51pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/37 "2021-09-11T13:51:19Z")
[quote=“djtexas, post:34, topic:8240”]
> He mocks quite rightly Write4 U belief that USA goal for invading afganistan was to get the mastermind by pointing out that USA were still occupying Afganistan 10 years after bin Laden’s death.
First, you have no standing in this conversation
Second, if you cannot make the correct spelling of a country’s name , I am quite right to now mock your ignorance of the issue.
Thirdly, the logic which you believe to be employing in your “deduction” is non-existent. You are just a common mudslinger, a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
No, he did not mock me quite rightly about anything. I answered his question correctly and he presumed to have gained the right to mock me about a wholly separate issue.
This seems to be typical of the new “conservatives”. Assuming things quite wrongly that aren’t at issue to begin with.
Like your belief in the BIG LIE. which was a completely fraudulent invention by a criminal mastermind, whom you adore. You are a Trump voter, aren’t you, assuming that he speaks the truth and is ready to “Make American Great Again” ?
I just took the liberty of making a declaration which is true, followed by a false assumption that I have gained the right to declare that you are part of that great deception. Is that how you want a discussion about issue?
---
### Author:  [@citizenschallengev4](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/citizenschallengev4)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/38 "2021-09-11T14:24:08Z")
> [@lausten](#):
>
> The closest thing to that would be the weapons manufacturers, but they don’t make policy,
Don’t I wish that were believable. They just own politicians who make the decisions. Then again sometimes it’s difficult to tell the difference between the corporate exec. and the government exec - so what the hey.
> # [Remembering Why Americans Loathe Dick Cheney](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/08/remembering-why-americans-loathe-dick-cheney/244306/)
>
> By [Conor Friedersdorf](https://www.theatlantic.com/author/conor-friedersdorf/)
>
> … President Bush bears ultimate responsibility for the Iraq War, as do the members of Congress who voted for it. But Dick Cheney’s role in the run-up to war was uniquely irresponsible and mendacious. And after the invasion, he contributed to the early dysfunction on the ground. Even Iraq War supporters should rue his involvement.
>
> The most succinct statement of his misdeeds comes from [“The People v. Richard Cheney,”](https://www.gq.com/story/richard-cheney-vice-president-impeachment?printable=true) a 2007 article by Wil S. Hylton. The piece recounts how Cheney undercut the CIA by instructing subordinates in that agency to stovepipe raw intelligence directly to his office. He also worked with Donald Rumsfeld to establish an alternative intelligence agency within the Pentagon. Both of these actions directly contributed to the faulty information that informed the decision to go to war. …
America run by oil executives? Oh but it goes well beyond the insanity of Shock’n Awe for fun and profit.
> # [Cheney’s Culture of Deregulation and Corruption](https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/green/news/2010/06/09/7900/cheneys-culture-of-deregulation-and-corruption/)
>
> #### How Bush Administration Inaction Created the BP Disaster
>
> By Joshua Dorner, June 9, 2010
>
> ### The poster child for Bush-Cheney crony capitalism
>
> The mention of [Halliburton](http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/) likely summons for most Americans memories of the Bush administration’s [infamous no-bid Iraq war contracts](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/25/60minutes/main551091.shtml)—and Halliburton’s [subsequent efforts to defraud taxpayers](http://mediamatters.org/research/201006060011) and its fatal negligence in facilities it constructed for our troops. Halliburton’s main business, however, is providing services to major oil companies such as its [potentially faulty cementing job](http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2010/05/halliburton-could-be-at-fault-for-oil-spill/56131/) on BP’s blown out well.
>
> The company had an unprecedented opportunity to engage in self-dealing and create a regulatory climate favorable to its business interests when Cheney, Halliburton’s former CEO, was ensconced in the White House and still [effectively on its payroll](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml).
---
### Author:  [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2021, 2:31pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/39 "2021-09-11T14:31:32Z")
I didn’t mean they just sat passively and waited for the orders for guns and bombs to come in.
My first wife had a temp job at Honeywell in Minneapolis. She went in one day and the protestors were standing at the entrance. She didn’t cross the line. She normally did not think about things like that. She got a transfer to a suburban location, with no protests. The people who worked there spoke of their roles as simply answering the call of their government. She brought home an internal memo that said as much, telling people it was okay to ignore any protests. The propaganda is strongest, the closer you get to the center of it.
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### Author:  [@djtexas](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/djtexas)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2021, 4:57am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/where-did-the-situation-in-afghanistan-fail/8240/40 "2021-09-12T04:57:47Z")
“I was not mocking anyone”
It’s quite easy to see I was referring to Mitch and not you
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