Everyone can be a Humanist. IMO, the problem lies in the phrase secular theist, which speaks of “tolerance” a very dangeros word, IMO.
Secular Humanists do not tolerate, they accept and embrace.
Everyone can be a Humanist. IMO, the problem lies in the phrase *secular theist*, which speaks of "tolerance" a very dangeros word, IMO. Secular humanist do not *tolerate*, they *embrace*.Secular theist is an oxymoron. It takes cognitive dissonance, but I have friends who are secular theists. I don't understand how they can compartmentalize their beliefs, but we share many values and have good times when we're together. I even know a Catholic Nudist. Wrap your head around that one.
Everyone can be a Humanist. IMO, the problem lies in the phrase *secular theist*, which speaks of "tolerance" a very dangeros word, IMO. Secular humanist do not *tolerate*, they *embrace*.Secular theist is an oxymoron. It takes cognitive dissonance, but I have friends who are secular theists. I don't understand how they can compartmentalize their beliefs, but we share many values and have good times when we're together. I even know a Catholic Nudist. Wrap your head around that one. I agree. My main point was that the word *tolerance* is often used to describe "we don't like it, but we'll live with it", which IMO is hubris. As a secular Humanist, meeting a good person of any cloth, I embrace their humanity, regardless of their spiritual orientation.
A common assertion among people here is that theists can be (secular) humanists. A lot of American humanists seem to be of this viewpoint, which would make American humanism very different from European humanism., the latter which is explicitly irreligious and atheistic (or at least agnostic). So I'm asking you here: Where are those secular humanists who are also theists? Have they had prominent roles in any humanist organization? Do they show up in meetups or in membership lists? Show me an example of a theist secular humanist!Umm, no, theists can't be secular humanists. Contradiction in terms. They can be secular in the sense that they believe in government without religious influence, even if they believe in god. They can also be humanists. Secular humanist is redundant. Humanism embraces the secularity of government, it does not embrace or require atheism. As long as a person can be secular--meaning wanting a separation between religion and government--as well as religious, he or she can be a humanist as well as theistic in the accepted meaning of the word humanism. Secularism n. The view that religious considerations should be excluded from civil affairs or public education. Free Dictionary. Note, it has nothing to say about belief. A secular person can a theist or not, he just doesn't believe in attaching religion to civil affairs or public education. Even theists can be rational. The philosophy of Americans United For Separation of Church and State is a secular state. Many AU members are theists. The president of AU is a clergyman. There is no reason to think that a theist or even a Christian can't also be secular. Secularism has nothing to do with religion. Secularists want civil affairs and religion to be separate, just as the American founding fathers wanted. Lois
The strength of a theists faith is inversely proportional to their humanism.
Justifications and reasons for an action are necessary when deciding if it is humanistic or not. I consider being good because you’re afraid of Hell or some other punishment, different from being good because you want to reduce suffering.
A person with 100% adherence to a religious doctrine is only a humanist in the same way a stopped clock is right… by coincidence only. As a person gets less and less literal in their faith, they can become can be more and more of a humanist.
So can there be a theist secular humanist?.. not really, unless you can have degrees of humanism (which I don’t think you can).
The strength of a theists faith is inversely proportional to their humanism. Justifications and reasons for an action are necessary when deciding if it is humanistic or not. I consider being good because you're afraid of Hell or some other punishment, different from being good because you want to reduce suffering. A person with 100% adherence to a religious doctrine is only a humanist in the same way a stopped clock is right... by coincidence only. As a person gets less and less literal in their faith, they can become can be more and more of a humanist. So can there be a theist secular humanist?... not really, unless you can have degrees of humanism (which I don't think you can).Your first line I thought, was marvelous. After that I don't know... I have know a few Humanist Theists,(jews, catholics) they seemed pretty Humanist to me. No, I'm pretty sure someone can be a Theist and Humanist quite concurrently. That's my opinion.
The strength of a theists faith is inversely proportional to their humanism. Justifications and reasons for an action are necessary when deciding if it is humanistic or not. I consider being good because you're afraid of Hell or some other punishment, different from being good because you want to reduce suffering. A person with 100% adherence to a religious doctrine is only a humanist in the same way a stopped clock is right... by coincidence only. As a person gets less and less literal in their faith, they can become can be more and more of a humanist. So can there be a theist secular humanist?... not really, unless you can have degrees of humanism (which I don't think you can).Your first line I thought, was marvelous. After that I don't know... I have know a few Humanist Theists,(jews, catholics) they seemed pretty Humanist to me. No, I'm pretty sure someone can be a Theist and Humanist quite concurrently. That's my opinion. I agree. Theists are involved in many Humanist efforts. It fact it is one of the redeeming factors of US theism anyway.
The strength of a theists faith is inversely proportional to their humanism. Justifications and reasons for an action are necessary when deciding if it is humanistic or not. I consider being good because you're afraid of Hell or some other punishment, different from being good because you want to reduce suffering. A person with 100% adherence to a religious doctrine is only a humanist in the same way a stopped clock is right... by coincidence only. As a person gets less and less literal in their faith, they can become can be more and more of a humanist. So can there be a theist secular humanist?... not really, unless you can have degrees of humanism (which I don't think you can).Your first line I thought, was marvelous. After that I don't know... I have know a few Humanist Theists,(jews, catholics) they seemed pretty Humanist to me. No, I'm pretty sure someone can be a Theist and Humanist quite concurrently. That's my opinion.I know lots of great people who are very strong theists, and now that I think about them, I might have to revise my position. The good theists I know had the humanist portion of their values instilled in them from the religions they follow when they were young. But now that they are adults, they truly want to do good for others and don't seem to be acting out of fear or because it's expected of them. The humanism is as much a part of them as any other aspect of their personality. So I suppose you can be a theist humanist, as long as you're doing it for the good of others and not yourself (this is still necessary in my eyes). As for the secular part of 'theist secular humanists', nope... "secular theist" is an oxymoron.
So I suppose you can be a theist humanist, as long as you're doing it for the good of others and not yourself (this is still necessary in my eyes).Hell yeah. That goes without saying. :-)
So I suppose you can be a theist humanist, as long as you're doing it for the good of others and not yourself (this is still necessary in my eyes).Hell yeah. That goes without saying. :-)Well it should go without saying, but some people don't look at the reasons behind the actions like we do. Those people wouldn't have a problem calling a rabid theist a humanist even if most of their actions were done out of fear and self-preservation. I'm just reinforcing the idea for those who don't already get the concept.
So I suppose you can be a theist humanist, as long as you're doing it for the good of others and not yourself (this is still necessary in my eyes).Hell yeah. That goes without saying. :-)Well it should go without saying, but some people don't look at the reasons behind the actions like we do. Those people wouldn't have a problem calling a rabid theist a humanist even if most of their actions were done out of fear and self-preservation. I'm just reinforcing the idea for those who don't already get the concept. Oh, I gotcha. Roger that.
I am an atheist and never gave much thought to spiritualism, until a native American bruha, in response to something I said, told me that I was very spiritual at heart, which I considered a great compliment although I didn’t understand exactly what she was conveying.
So I did a little research an ran across the following.
Secular spirituality refers to the adherence to a spiritual ideology without the advocation of a religious framework. Secular spirituality emphasizes the inner peace of an individual, rather than a relationship with the divine. Secular spirituality is made up of the search for meaning outside of a religious institution; it considers one’s relationship with the self, others, nature, and whatever else one considers to be the ultimate.[1] Often, the goal of secular spirituality is living happily and/or helping others.Secular spirituality - Wikipedia
Thus, if spirituality is taken as form of self-awareness, secular moral spirituality is not necessarily conected with Religion. It more oriented to the search for intellectual growth of the self, or as I like to call it; Humanism.
A common assertion among people here is that theists can be (secular) humanists. A lot of American humanists seem to be of this viewpoint, which would make American humanism very different from European humanism., the latter which is explicitly irreligious and atheistic (or at least agnostic). So I'm asking you here: Where are those secular humanists who are also theists? Have they had prominent roles in any humanist organization? Do they show up in meetups or in membership lists? Show me an example of a theist secular humanist!The granularity of your concern is a serious challeng to a useful answer. There was a guy who was posting on the forum, not long ago, who I think may have qualified as a secular theist humanist. He eventually got so upset with his ideas being challenged, that he basically said something like "Fuck off - Goodbye" and I haven't seen a post from him since.
So can there be a theist secular humanist?... not really, unless you can have degrees of humanism (which I don't think you can).I see there is some history to this in this thread. I didn't read the whole thread, I thought you put this last part in as a comical afterthought. :lol: The "secular theist" part....oxymoron..yes!
I am an atheist and never gave much thought to spiritualism, until a native American bruha, in response to something I said, told me that I was very spiritual at heart, which I considered a great compliment although I didn't understand exactly what she was conveying. So I did a little research an ran across the following.So why not use the word "Humanism" instead of a poorly defined, supernatural-sounding and contentious word like "spirituality"? Use "search for intellectual growth" or any other synonym without the reputation of implying the supernatural. Wouldn't that make it more widely understood and isn't that the purpose of communication? LoisSecular spirituality refers to the adherence to a spiritual ideology without the advocation of a religious framework. Secular spirituality emphasizes the inner peace of an individual, rather than a relationship with the divine. Secular spirituality is made up of the search for meaning outside of a religious institution; it considers one's relationship with the self, others, nature, and whatever else one considers to be the ultimate.[1] Often, the goal of secular spirituality is living happily and/or helping others.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_spirituality Thus, if *spirituality* is taken as form of self-awareness, secular moral spirituality is not necessarily conected with Religion. It more oriented to the search for *intellectual growth* of the self, or as I like to call it; Humanism.
I am an atheist and never gave much thought to spiritualism, until a native American bruha, in response to something I said, told me that I was very spiritual at heart, which I considered a great compliment although I didn't understand exactly what she was conveying. So I did a little research an ran across the following.So why not use the word "Humanism" instead of a poorly defined, supernatural-sounding and contentious word like "spirituality"? Use "search for intellectual growth" or any other synonym without the reputation of implying the supernatural. Wouldn't that make it more widely understood and isn't that the purpose of communication? Lois I agree and I don't use that word myself, as noted before. I used it this time in context of the conversation. That's why I posted the various definitions to illustrate the range of definitions that can be applied to *SPIRITUALISM*.Secular spirituality refers to the adherence to a spiritual ideology without the advocation of a religious framework. Secular spirituality emphasizes the inner peace of an individual, rather than a relationship with the divine. Secular spirituality is made up of the search for meaning outside of a religious institution; it considers one's relationship with the self, others, nature, and whatever else one considers to be the ultimate.[1] Often, the goal of secular spirituality is living happily and/or helping others.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_spirituality Thus, if *spirituality* is taken as form of self-awareness, secular moral spirituality is not necessarily conected with Religion. It more oriented to the search for *intellectual growth* of the self, or as I like to call it; Humanism.
I used to think that calling and considering myself an atheist was sufficient. But now I realize that a label that describes me best is secular humanist. I realize and understand the Sam Harris argument that labels are not necessary and that individuals do not label themselves has non astrologists, but I think it's a place to at least, hang your hat.A humanist by definition is secular. To call yourself a secular humanist is redundant. There is no other kind.