# When you can't just enjoy a big party **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics and Social Issues\ **Created:** [January 1, 2025, 6:49pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291 "2025-01-01T18:49:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2025, 7:57am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/41 "2025-01-10T07:57:16Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > How the hell can you not understand why I say not all immigrants are the same? Some are better than others, and that means we need to be more discerning. That was something I agreed with. I thought I was clear about that. There is nothing about being an immigrant that makes you the same as other immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![write4u](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/write4u/32/23410_2.png) [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2025, 9:57am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/42 "2025-01-10T09:57:33Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > How the hell can you not understand why I say not all immigrants are the same? Some are better than others, and that means we need to be more discerning. Are you implying that all US citizens are all the same and good? I believe the statistic show that immigrants commit less crime than US citizens. Most come here in hope of a better life, and work hard to earn it. [In the US, **white individuals** were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race and accounted for **59.1 percent** of those arrests](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43)[1](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43) [Black people were **36%** of those arrested for serious non-fatal violent crimes, and Hispanics were **21%**](https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2021/jun/1/us-doj-statistics-race-and-ethnicity-violent-crime-perpetrators/)[5](https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2021/jun/1/us-doj-statistics-race-and-ethnicity-violent-crime-perpetrators/). ---
**Author:** ![morgankane01](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/morgankane01/32/28536_2.png) [@morgankane01](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/morgankane01)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2025, 10:43am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/43 "2025-01-10T10:43:38Z")
> [@write4u](#): > > [In the US, **white individuals** were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race and accounted for **59.1 percent** of those arrests](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43)[1](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43) > [Black people were **36%** of those arrested for serious non-fatal violent crimes, and Hispanics were **21%**](https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2021/jun/1/us-doj-statistics-race-and-ethnicity-violent-crime-perpetrators/)[5](https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2021/jun/1/us-doj-statistics-race-and-ethnicity-violent-crime-perpetrators/). The absolute numbers don’t mean anything. They must be related with the percentage in the population. For instance, Blacks people are 12% of US population. That’s a fact, it is not racism. There are two way to explain the fact. The first way is to say that it is because they are black, and that would be racism. It is not mine. The second way is to look for other explanations, for instance poverty, and the fact that Blacks are much more watched and controlled than the Whites by police. The same can be checked about migrants. Are they criminals because they are migrants, because they are latinos, or because they are poor ? The last explanation covers most of the issue. And one can remember that in the 1900th, Irish migrants as in the 1920, Italian migrants, all of them whites and most of them Catholics, were targeted as criminals. ---
**Author:** ![write4u](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/write4u/32/23410_2.png) [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2025, 4:15pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/44 "2025-01-10T16:15:47Z")
> [@morgankane01](#): > > And one can remember that in the 1900th, Irish migrants as in the 1920, Italian migrants, all of them whites and most of them Catholics, were targeted as criminals. Right, using different criteria, all races and social orders can be targeted as criminal. Under the Catholics all atheists were criminal. Today under Islam all other apostate social orders are criminal. Take you pick. The market is full with criminals. ---
**Author:** ![thatoneguy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/thatoneguy/32/28536_2.png) [@thatoneguy](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/thatoneguy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 5:16am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/45 "2025-01-11T05:16:14Z")
> [@write4u](#): > > > [@thatoneguy](#): > > > > How the hell can you not understand why I say not all immigrants are the same? Some are better than others, and that means we need to be more discerning. > > Are you implying that all US citizens are all the same and good? I believe the statistic show that immigrants commit less crime than US citizens. Most come here in hope of a better life, and work hard to earn it. > > [In the US, **white individuals** were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race and accounted for **59.1 percent** of those arrests](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43)[1](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43) > [Black people were **36%** of those arrested for serious non-fatal violent crimes, and Hispanics were **21%**](https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2021/jun/1/us-doj-statistics-race-and-ethnicity-violent-crime-perpetrators/)[5](https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2021/jun/1/us-doj-statistics-race-and-ethnicity-violent-crime-perpetrators/). I appreciate that MorganKane explained how this data is misinterpreted. Most immigrants might not be criminals, but we still can live without them. ---
**Author:** ![thatoneguy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/thatoneguy/32/28536_2.png) [@thatoneguy](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/thatoneguy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 5:52am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/46 "2025-01-11T05:52:05Z")
> [@morgankane01](#): > > In fact, you disagree because you use 2 different definitions: > > - In USA, as far as i understand, in the old times, any people with even a drop of black blood was defined as black. And, in fact, this idea stays. > > And it gives this sort of data: In 2016, more non-Hispanic whites died than were born in twenty-six states; more than at any time in U.S. history. Some 179 million residents or roughly 56 percent of the U.S. population, lived in these 26 states In contrast, non-Hispanic white (hereafter referred to as white) deaths exceeded births in just four states in 2004 and seventeen as recently as 2014. White deaths also exceeded white births in the nation as a whole for the first time in U.S. history in 2016, according to data from the National Center for Health Statistics. > > [source](https://apl.wisc.edu/data-briefs/natural-decrease-18) > > But, in fact, this data is senseless, as many so called black have a good % of " white " blood, as many so called black people have white ancestry. > > [White supremacist discovers he has 14 % black blood](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLoel5EKT34&t=13s) > > In France, racial statistics are forbidden. > > And to judge people according the color of skin does not give better results. > > ## . The One Drop Rule was [used as a way to](https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2010/12/one-drop-rule-persists/) keep American Whites racially pure, rather than as a way to describe appearance. It worked by assigning a half-White, half-Black child a permanent Black racial status as a way to prevent them from mixing with Whites later on. You might find it morally wrong, but it worked, as White Americans are about 98.6% European. And they look it: > **[The Genetic Ancestry of African Americans, Latinos, and European Americans...](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4289685/table/tbl1/)** > > Over the past 500 years, North America has been the site of ongoing mixing of Native Americans, European settlers, and Africans (brought largely by the trans-Atlantic slave trade), shaping the early history of what became the United States. We ... Black Americans on average are 20-25% European, but they don’t look European at all. It’s very easy to figure someone’s racial background by their appearance. ---
**Author:** ![write4u](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/write4u/32/23410_2.png) [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 7:46am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/47 "2025-01-11T07:46:15Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > Most immigrants might not be criminals, but we still can live without them. No we can’t. We are the immigrants. The native Indians could have lived without us! We nearly exterminated them all. Have you actually given thought to the European history of war and persecution? Fact is, Humans are not a peaceful race. We are what is known as an “invasive species”. ---
**Author:** ![morgankane01](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/morgankane01/32/28536_2.png) [@morgankane01](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/morgankane01)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 8:50am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/48 "2025-01-11T08:50:50Z")
[Whites alone]([White Americans - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans#:~:text=The%20largest%20ethnic%20groups%20(by,followed%20by%20Germans%20and%20Irish.)) And i am sure that, in fact, many of these people who define themselves as White alone, are of mixed ancestry,. [Yes and no](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/they-considered-themselves-white-but-dna-tests-told-a-more-complex-story/2018/02/06/16215d1a-e181-11e7-8679-a9728984779c_story.html) In fact, more than was thought, studies are needed. ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 10:41am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/49 "2025-01-11T10:41:21Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > You might find it morally wrong, but it worked, Yes it’s morally wrong. This is now demonstrable. There are no personality traits related to where your DNA comes from. Criminal behavior is not predictable by DNA. Show me how the world is improved by excluding people who don’t look like you. What “worked”? ---
**Author:** ![coffee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/coffee/32/28536_2.png) [@coffee](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/coffee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 2:36pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/50 "2025-01-11T14:36:11Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > It’s very easy to figure someone’s racial background by their appearance. Sometimes, sure. But not generally. There was a study that presented pictures of Obama with varied levels of black tones. People were asked to pick which picture most accurately depicted his true skin tone. The results exposed clear racial prejudices. Republicans, for example consistently chose the darker toned pictures, indicating that people see who they create in their minds and not the reality. Also, these sorts of broad statements regarding racial background and appearance are not based on science but rather social constructs steeped in ignorance. > **[Race Is Real, But It’s Not Genetic](https://www.sapiens.org/biology/is-race-real/)** > > For centuries, socially defined notions of “race” have shaped human lives around the globe—but the category has no biological foundation. ---
**Author:** ![thatoneguy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/thatoneguy/32/28536_2.png) [@thatoneguy](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/thatoneguy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 2:09am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/51 "2025-01-13T02:09:15Z")
That’s hilarious. Obama is mixed race and he looks more Black than White. It doesn’t matter is what his “real skin tone” is because because it ain’t White and everyone can tell that right away. Not to mention his facial features and hair are also more Black than White. His appearance is more Black than White. It’s as simple as that. More importantly, everybody – including you – can tell the difference between Blacks and Whites with one quick look. The article says _Geographic_ _ancestry is not the same thing as race_ . Whatever. It’s close enough. ---
**Author:** ![thatoneguy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/thatoneguy/32/28536_2.png) [@thatoneguy](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/thatoneguy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 2:18am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/52 "2025-01-13T02:18:26Z")
> [@write4u](#): > > > [@thatoneguy](#): > > > > Most immigrants might not be criminals, but we still can live without them. > > No we can’t. We are the immigrants. The native Indians could have lived without us! > We nearly exterminated them all. > > Have you actually given thought to the European history of war and persecution? > Fact is, Humans are not a peaceful race. We are what is known as an “invasive species”. Of course Whites are not 'native" to the US. However, if it’s a contest between which culture is superior, Whites win. > [@lausten](#): > > Yes it’s morally wrong. This is now demonstrable. There are no personality traits related to where your DNA comes from. Criminal behavior is not predictable by DNA. > > Show me how the world is improved by excluding people who don’t look like you. What “worked”? Look at the difference between North America and Latin America and tell me which system worked out better. ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 12:09pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/53 "2025-01-13T12:09:08Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > which system worked out better. Better in what way? Better at building a massive military? Define better. ---
**Author:** ![coffee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/coffee/32/28536_2.png) [@coffee](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/coffee)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 1:57pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/54 "2025-01-13T13:57:27Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > The article says _Geographic_ _ancestry is not the same thing as race_ . Whatever. It’s close enough. That’s one source of your ignorance. “Close enough” means you can stick to your racist opinions. The article is saying that the “ability” to see Obama as black is meaningless in any significant way. I can usually tell pretty quickly if someone was raised in the South, but I recognize that that is a meaningless factor that comes with stereotypes. These stereotypes are dangerous as they serve to differentiate people into groups. The U.S. Civil war didn’t start because there were different colors of skin. The cause was that there were many people who gained riches on the backs of others, and people who thought that that was very wrong. ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/55 "2025-01-13T15:20:21Z")
> [@coffee](#): > > , but I recognize that that is a meaningless factor that comes with stereotypes. You aren’t falling for the ecological fallacy. That fallacy is racism on the simple level, but there’s more to it. We have skills of quickly identifying people, and that can be a survival skill, but in this world, where we encounter a wider variety of people, it can be harmful. We can blind ourselves from the commonalities which are helpful. ---
**Author:** ![coffee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/coffee/32/28536_2.png) [@coffee](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/coffee)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 4:12pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/56 "2025-01-13T16:12:50Z")
> [@lausten](#): > > We can blind ourselves from the commonalities which are helpful. Exactly. It also helps that I have spent years in each of Midland TX, Houston TX, New Orleans, East Brunswick NJ, Rochester NY, Buffalo NY, Charlotte NC. I also met many different folks while enlisted in the Air Force. My point being, once exposed to the world’s variety of people and places it became obvious to me that each of these people and places contained the full spectrum of individuals. Some of these individuals were like that guy in the sense that they formed prejudices toward each and every person and place. As I already mentioned, I am happy not to be that guy. Love may not beat hate, but it’s much nicer to carry around. ---
**Author:** ![thatoneguy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/thatoneguy/32/28536_2.png) [@thatoneguy](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/thatoneguy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2025, 3:39am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/57 "2025-01-14T03:39:52Z")
> [@lausten](#): > > > [@thatoneguy](#): > > > > which system worked out better. > > Better in what way? Better at building a massive military? Define better. The standard of living is far higher in USA and Canada than it is in any Latin American nation. USA and Canada are much further ahead in STEM. USA and Canada have contributed far more to the world than Latin America. Refugees from the [global south](https://onlineacademiccommunity.uvic.ca/globalsouthpolitics/2018/08/08/global-south-what-does-it-mean-and-why-use-the-term/) always want to come to North America, Europe or Australia. That says it all. ---
**Author:** ![thatoneguy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/thatoneguy/32/28536_2.png) [@thatoneguy](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/thatoneguy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2025, 4:03am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/58 "2025-01-14T04:03:24Z")
> [@coffee](#): > > The article is saying that the “ability” to see Obama as black is meaningless in any significant way. I wonder what Obama would say if you told him his Blackness is meaningless. He used to say it mattered a lot to him. > [@coffee](#): > > I can usually tell pretty quickly if someone was raised in the South, but I recognize that that is a meaningless factor that comes with stereotypes. These stereotypes are dangerous as they serve to differentiate people into groups. I usually can tell if someone is Southern as well. It’s helpful because I know I can’t be as blunt with them as I could be with Northerners. Those “stereotypes” are important if you want smooth interaction with different people. We naturally form into groups based on who we are. Nobody is forcing us to do that. > [@coffee](#): > > Exactly. It also helps that I have spent years in each of Midland TX, Houston TX, New Orleans, East Brunswick NJ, Rochester NY, Buffalo NY, Charlotte NC. > I also met many different folks while enlisted in the Air Force. My point being, once exposed to the world’s variety of people and places it became obvious to me that each of these people and places contained the full spectrum of individuals. Some of these individuals were like that guy in the sense that they formed prejudices toward each and every person and place. As I already mentioned, I am happy not to be that guy. Love may not beat hate, but it’s much nicer to carry around. I was in the military too, and saw how close people from different backgrounds could be. 1 on 1, people from different racial, ethnic, religious, etc backgrounds can get along well. However, as soon as person number 3 enters the picture, it changes. ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2025, 1:14pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/59 "2025-01-14T13:14:21Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > He used to say it mattered a lot to him. You should look into what that means to him. Race is a social construct. He could have social reasons for liking his own looks. It still has no causality to other physical or inherited traits. Obama is not confusing race with the type of person he is. That’s you doing that. ---
**Author:** ![coffee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/coffee/32/28536_2.png) [@coffee](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/coffee)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2025, 2:44pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291/60 "2025-01-14T14:44:13Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > I usually can tell if someone is Southern as well. It’s helpful because I know I can’t be as blunt with them as I could be with Northerners. So, that’s hilarious. You’re saying Southerners are snowflakes. Red state = snowflakes. That’s the simple response using labels/stereotypes. A more accurate answer is to point out that you are guilty of over generalization. That, of course, is a major fault of racism. > [@thatoneguy](#): > > However, as soon as person number 3 enters the picture, it changes. What a simple little pattern you have manufactured. First, you assume that it is race that caused trouble when a third person enters the picture. Second, you ignore a countless number of other factors that might create discomfort. Third, your argument is anecdotal at best. My experience is opposite yours, perhaps because I welcome a third, fourth, … [Previous page](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/when-you-cant-just-enjoy-a-big-party/11291.md?page=4)