What exactly is it I don't understand? According to Luke (3:23–31): "[Jesus] was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, the son of Matthat, ... the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David,..." Jesus was the son of Joseph, who was the son of Heli, who was the son of blah, blah, blah, who was the the son of Nathan. What does Mary have to do with any of this?The subject is Jesus. It begins, "Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, the son of Matthat..." Joseph doesn't become the subject. After it says Jesus was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the term son is not used again. It does not say "Joseph, who was the son of Heli," It says, Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, of Heli, of Matthat, of Levi, of Melki, of Jannai, blah, blah, blah. Matthew 1 shows Joseph's genealogy through Solomon and ends this way, "Elihud the father of Eleazar, Eleazar the father of Matthan, Matthan the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah." It's a different genealogy. Is it reasonable to think Joseph has two genealogies through two different fathers? Or is it reasonable to think Jesus has a genealogy through his father and one through his mother, especially since the claim is that he is both the offspring of David according to the flesh and heir to the cursed kingly line of Solomon?
I think it’s reasonable to think that neither Matthew nor Luke had any idea that they both came up with Jesus’s genealogy. As I already said before, the Gospels are full of similar confusing examples.
As for your understanding of Luke’s genealogy of Jesus, well, I have no idea what you’re talking about. I think we are done here.
Perhaps there aren't inconsistencies in the bible, but a lack of understanding by the reader.Perhaps there are inconsistencies in the Bible].
Also, Christians don't think that war in the ME will bring the End Times.On what planet do you spend most of your time? Many Christians believe war in the Middle East will bring Jesus back astride a white horse to save mankind from destroying itself. Hal Lindsey wrote a book about it in 1971, The Late Great Planet Earth], which became a best seller in the 1970s. Lindsey followed up with at least two other end-times books and made a decent living preaching his vision of the apocalypse. A Rock' n ' Roll band called Aphrodite's Child released the album 666 in 1971, which was about (have you guess it, yet?) a war in the Middle East bringing about the apocalypse. You said you've read the Bible, Lily. Are you not familiar with the Book of Revelation? You used the word "dominionist" then turned around and said Christians don't believe in dominionist teaching. You contradict yourself; whether through intellectual laziness or intellectual dishonesty I do not know. Some Christians do believe in dominionist ideologies, and Methodists can be dominionists. I do not understand how an intellectually honest person in the United States could make a statement as transparently false as the one I quoted you writing. Armageddon Oil and the Middle East Crisis] by John Walvoord (1976). Middle East Burning: Is the Spreading Unrest a Sign of the End Times?] by Mark Hitchcock (2012). Have you not heard of Tim Lahaye and his end-times message?
Also, Christians don't think that war in the ME will bring the End Times.On what planet do you spend most of your time? There's a difference between what the End Times will bring and what will bring the End Times. None of the examples you gave me said that if Christians start a war in the ME that will bring the End Times. It's that kind of nonsense that is used to misrepresent Christian belief and denigrate Christians unfairly. Jesus taught in Matthew 24:6, "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come." So apparently wars don't bring the end. What does? In Christian teaching, God always calls out the righteous before His judgment comes. Today, God is calling out from among the nations of the world those who will put their trust in him. When that's complete, the end will come and the nations will be judged. Paul explains, "I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in..." The end will not come until every non-Jew that is going to come to Christ has come. A Dominionist has a specific belief. He believes that a form of the Mosaic Law should govern society to the exclusion of secular law. There are about 5 Dominionists, or Reconstructionist, in the US. A Methodist believes that they should live a righteous life and make the world a better place so that Christ will return. A similar belief is held by Jews and Catholics. They are not and cannot be Dominionists, although some on the political left like to scare people by giving the title to their political opponents.
There's a difference between what the End Times will bring and what will bring the End Times.Lily, you "Christians don't think war in the ME will bring about the end times." I gave you references to Christians who teach that very concept, yet you refuse to acknowledge their beliefs. I met hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye when I was an evangelical Christian, and heard them preach about how war in the Mid East would bring about the Tribulation, the Rapture and Jesus returning to save mankind. You are equivocating when you argue about the difference between what will bring the end times and what the end times will bring. Also, I have known Methodists who were dominionists. One was in my family, so you are wrong when you tell me Methodists cannot be dominionists. And you're not going to convince any rational thinkers by quoting Bible verses.
And you're not going to convince any rational thinkers by quoting Bible verses.No apparently not. Rational thinkers think they know the bible without knowing the bible. They think they can judge Christians without understanding what Christian believe. You can't seem to understand the distinction that the End Times speaks of wars, but that war does not bring the end times. It's much easier to believe a conspiracy theory video and just blame Christians for all the problems in the world. Rational? May be not, but a lot easier.
And you're not going to convince any rational thinkers by quoting Bible verses.No apparently not. Rational thinkers think they know the bible without knowing the bible. They think they can judge Christians without understanding what Christian believe. You can't seem to understand the distinction that the End Times speaks of wars, but that war does not bring the end times. It's much easier to believe a conspiracy theory video and just blame Christians for all the problems in the world. Rational? May be not, but a lot easier. I guess the three years I spent studying the bible, attending evangelical churches, speaking in tongues and even spending half a semester in seminary don't count for much in your eyes. Anyone who states there are no contradictions in the Bible does not know the Bible.
There's a difference between what the End Times will bring and what will bring the End Times.Lily, you "Christians don't think war in the ME will bring about the end times." I gave you references to Christians who teach that very concept, yet you refuse to acknowledge their beliefs. I met hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye when I was an evangelical Christian, and heard them preach about how war in the Mid East would bring about the Tribulation, the Rapture and Jesus returning to save mankind. You are equivocating when you argue about the difference between what will bring the end times and what the end times will bring. Also, I have known Methodists who were dominionists. One was in my family, so you are wrong when you tell me Methodists cannot be dominionists. And you're not going to convince any rational thinkers by quoting Bible verses.DARRON - Now THAT'S what I'm talking about in my response to your response in the harassment thread... this is a great post, I learned something, and see that you have the kind of experience that cuts through the mumbo jumbo christians like LilySmith put out. The other little trick Christians like to pull is to suck you into a discussion about details. It doesn't matter one bit about what the bible says, or who descends from whom. There were many many versions of the bible, and more importantly there were many Jesus's in those days who preached as he did, supposedly came from a virgin birth, supposedly descended from wherever. The books were cooked so to speak, long after all the jesus's were dead, to make it appear there was only one, and that he fulfilled the OT. The NT was cooked to fit the OT prophecy. So it's pointless to discuss any of these details.
There were many many versions of the bible, and more importantly there were many Jesus's in those days who preached as he did, supposedly came from a virgin birth, supposedly descended from wherever. The books were cooked so to speak, long after all the jesus's were dead, to make it appear there was only one, and that he fulfilled the OT. The NT was cooked to fit the OT prophecy. So it's pointless to discuss any of these details.There are many translations of the bible which all come from the same set of manuscripts. The rest of your post is pure speculation. No proof whatsoever. And I'm sorry you can't understand the distinction between what brings the End Times and what the end times bring. That seemed so simply to me.
And I'm sorry you can't understand the distinction between what brings the End Times and what the end times bring. That seemed so simply to me.I am sorry you cannot understand the distinction between what you believe and what a lot of other Christians believe. Seems to me an all-powerfull god would be a better communicator than Yahweh.
And I'm just wondering if any of this evidence presented is indeed legit ideas accepted by historians or were they completely made up out of thin air?I'm not a historian, but I am a Christian. I watched two minutes of the video and saw the same old conspiracy nonsense that I've seen before. George Bush never said God told him to go to war. He's a Methodist, not a Dominionist. You can look up that controversy. Also, Christians don't think that war in the ME will bring the End Times. The truth is that the Hebrew Scripture alludes to a Messiah who will not only restore the nation Israel, but will also reconcile non-Jews to God. The Christian Scripture teaches that Jesus is that Messiah--the Christ. The NT is in Greek, because it contains the message to non-Jews. At one time Christianity could have been used to control the masses before they had bibles and could understand the message for themselves, but not today. That's not the reason the NT was written in Greek. It's in Greek because Greek was the language of scholars at the time. It was also a common spoken language in 1st century Judea. Whatever language the NT had been written in, it would not have been known by a lot of non-Jews. It would still have had to be translated. Lois
The Christian Scripture teaches that Jesus is that Messiah--the Christ.The problem is that the Messiah was supposed to be related to David, something that Jesus is not. The NT does show how Jesus is related to David through Joseph, but Joseph wasn't really Jesus's dad, was he? So, as per the Scripture, Jesus is automatically not the Messiah. You believe in the wrong god, and probably end up in hell. Sorry. :-S You may be believing in the wrong god, too. And that god may be as sadistic as the one you believe in. Sorry. Lois
And I'm sorry you can't understand the distinction between what brings the End Times and what the end times bring. That seemed so simply to me.I am sorry you cannot understand the distinction between what you believe and what a lot of other Christians believe. Seems to me an all-powerfull god would be a better communicator than Yahweh. So, LilySmith, let's say your are right, that what you are telling us about Christianity is the correct interpretation. I know people who have said war will bring the End Times. DarronS gave us some sites that say it. Surely you can agree that there are many other people who say that, or say something different from what you say. So, how do I know which is right? And if the answer is pray and study the Bible, surely you agree that is exactly what every other person, with all those different opinions would say. There are 30,000 or more Protestant denominations, each with a doctrine, written up, and constantly reviewed by people who have trained their entire life to do just that, but you're telling me, I should trust you. Why?
And I'm sorry you can't understand the distinction between what brings the End Times and what the end times bring. That seemed so simply to me.I am sorry you cannot understand the distinction between what you believe and what a lot of other Christians believe. Seems to me an all-powerfull god would be a better communicator than Yahweh. So, LilySmith, let's say your are right, that what you are telling us about Christianity is the correct interpretation. I know people who have said war will bring the End Times. DarronS gave us some sites that say it. Actually Darron didn't. He gave some links to books that speak about the end times, but don't say war brings the end times. If war brings the end times, why didn't WWII bring the end times? Why haven't all the wars fought over the last two thousand years brought the end times? I know of no denomination or serious teachers that says war brings the end times. No Christian is proclaiming, Let's start a war so we can bring the end times. That's nonsense. I guess if you don't bother to study but rely on conspiracy theorists to do your thinking for you, I guess you could be fooled.
Actually Darron didn't. He gave some links to books that speak about the end times, but don't say war brings the end times. If war brings the end times, why didn't WWII bring the end times? Why haven't all the wars fought over the last two thousand years brought the end times? I know of no denomination or serious teachers that says war brings the end times. No Christian is proclaiming, Let's start a war so we can bring the end times. That's nonsense. I guess if you don't bother to study but rely on conspiracy theorists to do your thinking for you, I guess you could be fooled.There you go equivocating again. WW II was not fought in the Middle East. You're either really bad at geography of intellectually dishonest. either way you are only fooling yourself. I notice you haven't mentioned the part where I said I met Lindsey and LaHaye and heard them preach about how war in the Middle East is a sign of the end times and the imminent return of Jesus on his white horse. that doesn't fit your worldview, does it?
There you go equivocating again. WW II was not fought in the Middle East. You're either really bad at geography of intellectually dishonest. either way you are only fooling yourself. I notice you haven't mentioned the part where I said I met Lindsey and LaHaye and heard them preach about how war in the Middle East is a sign of the end times and the imminent return of Jesus on his white horse. that doesn't fit your worldview, does it?WWII was fought in the ME- "The Mediterranean and Middle East Theatre was a major theater of operations during the Second World War." ~Wiki Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye preaching that a SIGN of the end times is war, is not the same as saying Christians want to start a war in the ME to bring the end times as the conspiracy video the OP linked to claimed.
I never said Christians want to start a war to bring the end times. The major theatres of operations in WW II were in Europe and the Asian Pacific.
Edit: corrected grammar.
Actually Darron didn't. He gave some links to books that speak about the end times, but don't say war brings the end times. If war brings the end times, why didn't WWII bring the end times? Why haven't all the wars fought over the last two thousand years brought the end times? I know of no denomination or serious teachers that says war brings the end times. No Christian is proclaiming, Let's start a war so we can bring the end times. That's nonsense. I guess if you don't bother to study but rely on conspiracy theorists to do your thinking for you, I guess you could be fooled.So, that's your answer? I should trust you because you can give a partial response to one of the many questions I raised? I'm not asking you to respond to every possible question about the Bible, I'm asking how one can differentiate between the many commentaries. I know how I do that when it comes to something like quantum physics, something I will never be able to understand fully or I know what to do when I need surgery or when I buy a car. But there is no way to determine which of the churches in my little town is the right one. They can't all be right. They disagree on minor issues about what heaven is actually like to big ones like abortion and homosexuality. So how does anyone go about choosing?