# War Drums in the Ukraine **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics and Social Issues\ **Created:** [April 3, 2021, 9:04pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850 "2021-04-03T21:04:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![citizenschallengev4](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/citizenschallengev4/32/28718_2.png) [@citizenschallengev4](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/citizenschallengev4)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 1:30pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/545 "2023-07-18T13:30:07Z")
> [@sunnyjim](#): > > John F. Kennedy imposes an illegal blockade on Cuba following the USSR’s missile placement just miles off Florida’s shores, a historically justified action. > **[Russia strikes Ukraine grain port after exiting export deal](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-strikes-ukraine-grain-port-after-pulling-out-export-deal-2023-07-18/)** > > Russia struck Ukrainian ports a day after pulling out of a U.N.-backed deal for safe Black Sea grain exports, and Moscow and Kyiv gave vastly different accounts of fighting in northeastern Ukraine on Tuesday. > **[Russian attack destroys warehouses of major Ukrainian commodity terminal,...](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-attack-destroys-warehouses-major-ukrainian-commodity-terminal-governor-2022-06-07/)** > > Russian shelling destroyed the warehouses of one of Ukraine's largest agricultural commodities terminals in the Black Sea port of Mykolaiv over the weekend, authorities and the facility's owner and authorities said on Tuesday. I don’t think much of the West, we’ve been greedy stupid pigs, but Russia is even more insane and vicious why do you seem to have no problem with them? That’s not a world leader’s behavior, it’s an outta control hateful maniac. ---
**Author:** ![timbandtech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/timbandtech/32/2432_2.png) [@timbandtech](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/timbandtech)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/546 "2023-07-18T14:28:47Z")
> [@citizenschallengev4](#): > > > [@timbandtech](#): > > > > It is convenient to your narrative to leave the actions and the methods of the U.$. federal government out completely. > > It’s convenient to your narrative to leave the actions and the methods of the Russians completely out of it. > > I wonder if you understand who’s been blowing up apartment blocks and hospitals and farm land and power stations, etc? Yes. I understand that the Ukranians are devastating the civilians and the land that Russia is taking over. Here is some to study directly from the horses mouth in order to falsify your own accusation above here: > **[Address by the President of the Russian Federation](http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/69390)** But you see I am not a Russian, nor am I a Ukranian. I am here in my homeland, and I see the large part that my government’s foreign policy is playing so far away from me. I see that the Russians are being straightforward and coherent, while my country seems to do nothing but lie and supply weapons. Any semblance of integrity that you thought the U.$. had has been whittled down to chips on the ground now. It’s gone completely. The stack of lies has risen so high now that picking through them requires a safety harness and special training just to get started. So I reccommend you focus on just one critical detail and research it far more carefully than the MSM allows for. You must understand by now that all MSM sources are trash. Every one of them tows the deep state line. If you seek the truth, and I’d like to think that here at the ‘center for inquiry’ that this idea is universally felt, then the methods used will ultimately lead us toward enlightenment rather than lost under a pile of vicious lies. We are fairly well swamped in them now, and again I stress this need to work one step at a time. Best of all though, upon finding some truth tellers we can ride their backs for a while. If you’ve bought into the new McCartheistic era I suppose you probably don’t really want to have such a discussion. The thing is we are no longer post world war two. That was a century ago. As to who is the new evil country on the world block; as to who flexes their military muscle the most; twists arms to get what it wants; Mearsheimer calls it Godzilla. It won’t be long and Godzilla will be fighting with a broken leg. Can’t wait to see what that looks like. It seems to have an awful lot of crud in its eyes right now. ---
**Author:** ![write4u](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/write4u/32/23410_2.png) [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 3:42pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/547 "2023-07-18T15:42:42Z")
> [@timbandtech](#): > > Yes. I understand that the Ukrainians are devastating the civilians and the land that Russia is taking over. Amazing, you are actually admitting that Russia is “taking over” Ukrainian lands and killing Ukrainians and destroying their power grid, schools, hospitals in Kyiv, Ukraine’s Capitol? Are you claiming this is Ukraine comitting suicide? Ukraine is the bad player in your scenario? Are you out of your mind? Putin is the knight in shining armor coming to save all those poor Ukrainians being killed by their own government? You want to see what the US does with their money when they are not forced to help peaceful countries against invasion by “bad actors”? Have you gone mad? ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/centerforinquiry/original/3X/a/c/aceee7b1c0a7488e43a722e7ae29892fc3b50ba5.png) ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/centerforinquiry/original/3X/b/9/b97dcc7d69f1ca9392515d39ec01e31d9c18d3a4.png) ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/centerforinquiry/original/3X/0/f/0fb44c2e8edd9533fbb88d8dbd7f7f53433dac08.png) ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/centerforinquiry/original/3X/0/a/0a5078a4199e53bb0b431245cc6d0d31e9f81133.png) much more… [FA.gov](https://www.foreignassistance.gov/cd/ukraine/) Show me what Russia does to help poor countries. Why is all of Europe scared of Putin? Is it because Putin is “nice guy”? Or is he a stone cold killer who will stop at nothing to get what he wants? Get real! ---
**Author:** ![write4u](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/write4u/32/23410_2.png) [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/548 "2023-07-18T16:54:50Z")
> [@timbandtech](#): > > As to who is the new evil country on the world block; as to who flexes their military muscle the most; twists arms to get what it wants; Mearsheimer calls it Godzilla. I call it **Russia** … ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/centerforinquiry/original/3X/a/3/a36c9ef2a7f65ac72aa452407843fdd1c51664ae.png) ---
**Author:** ![sunnyjim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sunnyjim](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/sunnyjim)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/549 "2023-07-18T20:02:04Z")
Touch of reality Hi Write4U. Can you comment on this article, in particular the futility of ukraine fighting the russians with this touch of reality delivered by head of NATO to the people of Ukraine “We will be in a position to extend an invitation to Ukraine to join the Alliance when Allies agree and conditions are met … [however] unless Ukraine wins this war, there’s no membership issue to be discussed at all”\* – Jens Stoltenberg’s statement at Vilnius. Thus, after urging Kiev to throw more (hundreds of thousands) of its men into the jaws of death to justify NATO membership, the latter turns its back on its protégé. It was, after all, an unwinnable war from the beginning.” > **[A Bonfire of the Vanities](https://strategic-culture.org/news/2023/07/17/a-bonfire-of-the-vanities/)** > > Hubris consists in believing that a contrived narrative can, in and of itself, bring victory, Alastair Crooke writes. ❗️Join us on Telegram , Twitter , and VK . Hubris consists in… ---
**Author:** ![timbandtech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/timbandtech/32/2432_2.png) [@timbandtech](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/timbandtech)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/550 "2023-07-18T21:17:43Z")
> [@lausten](#): > > Testimony is not necessarily truth. I had a High School who was ex-CIA, that can’t be proven, but he had spent a lot of time in Russia as a “journalist”, so, anyway. He said his problem was that he gave information to our government and they didn’t act on it. He wasn’t more specific. > > Agee is an actor, Stockwell is dead, and McGovern writes for RT. Those all give me reason for suspicion, but I’m not going to spend hours finding all their misinformation and explaining it to you. Nor would I name some people, like Paul Wellstone, and then say, “he was good, so our government is good”. That’s not an argument. > > Why don’t you actually discuss something? Could it be that you’ve tried showing your facts, and had people poke holes in them, and question your logic? Actually, Agee is not an actor, and he is dead as well in 2008 in Cuba. [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/centerforinquiry/original/3X/c/2/c2bbf7ccb102de494af83311a02f7b8479edf9fd.jpeg "Inside The CIA - On Company Business (1980) [COMPLETE] HD") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYrznlDTE_M&t=2h6m) Interesting mention about the truckers’ union mention about a minute in from where I’ve started you at. When the trucks stop… seize their bank accounts? ---
**Author:** ![timbandtech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/timbandtech/32/2432_2.png) [@timbandtech](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/timbandtech)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/551 "2023-07-18T21:44:40Z")
> [@lausten](#): > > Agee is an actor, Stockwell is dead, and McGovern writes for RT. Those all give me reason for suspicion, but I’m not going to spend hours finding all their misinformation and explaining it to you. Nor would I name some people, like Paul Wellstone, and then say, “he was good, so our government is good”. That’s not an argument. And actually it looks like Stockwell may still be alive. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPTb05vlEZs&t=23m40s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPTb05vlEZs&t=23m40s) ---
**Author:** ![write4u](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/write4u/32/23410_2.png) [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/552 "2023-07-18T23:12:56Z")
> [@sunnyjim](#): > > Hi Write4U. Can you comment on this article, in particular the futility of ukraine fighting the russians with this touch of reality delivered by head of NATO to the people of Ukraine. > > It was, after all, an unwinnable war from the beginning.” Let’s unpack this: # Zelenskyy accepts Ukraine cannot become a NATO member until the war ends June 3, 20237:59 AM ET Heard on [Weekend Edition Saturday](https://www.npr.org/programs/weekend-edition-saturday/2023/06/03/1179979671/weekend-edition-saturday-for-june-3-2023) > SCOTT SIMON, HOST: > “Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, is giving up hopes of having his country join NATO anytime soon. After months of urging that NATO’s members admit Ukraine, he acknowledged yesterday it would be, quote, “impossible” for that to happen before the war with Russia ended. We’re joined now by John Deni, research professor at the U.S. Army War College and a nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. Professor Deni, thanks for being with us.” > JOHN DENI: {“My pleasure, Scott” > more… [Zelenskyy accepts Ukraine cannot become a NATO member until the war ends : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2023/06/03/1179979756/zelenskyy-accepts-ukraine-cannot-become-a-nato-member-until-the-war-ends). You have a complete misunderstanding of the “reality” and it has nothing to do with an “unwinnable war”. Actually, that is what Putin is faced with. If NATO accepted Ukraine’s membership before the war is over, NATO would immediately be obligated to declare war on Russia. That is the strength of NATO. All members are covered by a mutual defense treaty, including newbies. This is why Ukraine must win this war and join NATO, then they will be safe from Russia. Conquering a part of a country is doable, but occupying and keeping an entire country is the long-term problem that Soviet Russia has already faced once. and lost. For Ukraine this is life or death. They have no option but win. It is Russia that cannot win this war and does have the option to stop its aggression. ---
**Author:** ![sunnyjim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sunnyjim](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/sunnyjim)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 11:31pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/553 "2023-07-18T23:31:21Z")
With conditions and when allies agree… is code for no guarantee. Zel was furious at the west with this non commitment at the NATO summit as he realises he has been sold a pup > **[Zelensky slams NATO for omitting a timeline for Ukraine to join](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/11/zelensky-nato-ukraine-membership-timeline/)** > > NATO says Ukraine can join, but does not provide a timeline. Zelensky calls that "unprecedented and absurd." You go on about Ukraine winnable war when the article points out this is exactly what is meant by western hubris when we look at is actually happening in Ukraine “But military facts on the ground have exposed the western doctrine as hubris – with Ukrainian forces decimated, and its NATO weaponry lying in smoking ruins. It was NATO that insisted on re-enacting the Battle of 73 Easting (from the Iraqi desert, but now translated into Ukraine)” ---
**Author:** ![write4u](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/write4u/32/23410_2.png) [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 12:05am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/554 "2023-07-19T00:05:10Z")
> [@sunnyjim](#): > > You go on about Ukraine winnable war when the article points out this is exactly what is meant by western hubris when we look at is actually happening in Ukraine This war was supposed to be over in a week. It’s been a longggggggggg week. ---
**Author:** ![sunnyjim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sunnyjim](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/sunnyjim)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/555 "2023-07-19T00:17:57Z")
With all those NATO weapons ? The HIMARS, storm shadow missiles, patriot missiles, Javelins, bradley and leopard tanks have not been the game changer as the western media was shoving down our throats throughout the war ---
**Author:** ![write4u](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/write4u/32/23410_2.png) [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 3:19am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/556 "2023-07-19T03:19:30Z")
I see, and the Russians are using muskets. Let me remind you that no Ukrainian missile has hit a Russian target in Russia. All the damage you see in Ukraine is “made in Russia”, You must be very bad at geography. ---
**Author:** ![write4u](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/write4u/32/23410_2.png) [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 3:46am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/557 "2023-07-19T03:46:06Z")
> [@sunnyjim](#): > > With conditions and when allies agree… is code for no guarantee. Zel was furious at the west with this non commitment at the NATO summit as he realises he has been sold a pup Actually I agree with Zelinski. He applied for NATO membership long before Russia invaded Ukraine. There was some opposition from a few countries but those have been resolved. It seems to me that NATO could set a deadline for acceptance of Ukraine . If Russia has not withdrawn by that time NATO would enroll Ukraine and get boots on the ground. That would end the war in a few days. After all, this is precisely why Ukraine applied for membership in NATO. If Ukraine had been accepted sooner, Russia would never have dared invade Ukraine. That situation has now come to pass and NATO should appreciate Ukraine’s desire to join and strengthen the alliance. NATO could set a deadline and give Russia plenty time to withdraw and perhaps even negotiate a favorable peace. ---
**Author:** ![sunnyjim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sunnyjim](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/sunnyjim)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 4:08am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/558 "2023-07-19T04:08:17Z")
What’s left of Ukraine after all this will have to accept neutral status. Having failed to weaken Russia, NATO is likely to abandon Ukraine. What is left will be picked over by western capitalists. Fortunately, the west is not serious about letting Ukraine join NATO. If it were, the Russians might be tempted to take all of Ukraine. No Ukraine, no NATO membership. They wouldn’t want to do that. Occupying a hostile western Ukraine wouldn’t be worth the candle ---
**Author:** ![mriana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mriana/32/18174_2.png) [@mriana](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mriana)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 12:08pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/559 "2023-07-19T12:08:20Z")
> [@sunnyjim](#): > > What’s left of Ukraine after all this will have to accept neutral status. Having failed to weaken Russia, NATO is likely to abandon Ukraine. What is left will be picked over by western capitalists. My! You have a fatalistic view. > [@sunnyjim](#): > > Fortunately, the west is not serious about letting Ukraine join NATO. If it were, the Russians might be tempted to take all of Ukraine. No Ukraine, no NATO membership. How do you know they aren’t serious? > [@sunnyjim](#): > > They wouldn’t want to do that. Occupying a hostile western Ukraine wouldn’t be worth the candle Hostile? It’s Russia that’s hostile, because they started this mess. I’d say it’s Russia that’s hostile and it has always been. ---
**Author:** ![timbandtech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/timbandtech/32/2432_2.png) [@timbandtech](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/timbandtech)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 12:25pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/560 "2023-07-19T12:25:28Z")
> [@mriana](#): > > Hostile? It’s Russia that’s hostile, because they started this mess. I’d say it’s Russia that’s hostile and it has always been. Here is a pretty good context from McGovern: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wgfrk48Gv1A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wgfrk48Gv1A) Would you say that the Minsk accords were a hostile action? Would you say that the West have superior diplomatic skills? Oh, and then there is a concept of credibility. This last has been spent down pretty deeply now. It makes me wonder if the Ukraine conflict could be extended into more European election cycles. As Russia wins the information war possibly Europe will work free of Godzilla’s grip. In effect Ukraine is the meat in a sandwich for Godzilla. You see the bread to either side? ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/561 "2023-07-19T15:32:57Z")
He doesn’t need 9 minutes to present his facts. I’ve read all of them in MSM, so his comments about them not being out there is a lie. He spends over half the time saying things like, “Russia is being diddled”. Honestly, I think this guy is a parody, it’s the way he consistently mispronounces Russia names. It’s cute. He’s broadcasting that he doesn’t listen to anyone but himself. I’ll do a breakdown of his evidence later. I’m busy. But try it yourself. Take the facts, like the 2014 coup, or the 1954 decision, lay those out, then see if you can make them come to his conclusions. Is he leaving something out? Then add that in. I’ll do the same, and we can compare notes. ---
**Author:** ![timbandtech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/timbandtech/32/2432_2.png) [@timbandtech](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/timbandtech)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 4:21pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/562 "2023-07-19T16:21:56Z")
> [@lausten](#): > > Honestly, I think this guy is a parody, it’s the way he consistently mispronounces Russia names. It’s cute. He’s broadcasting that he doesn’t listen to anyone but himself. I have to concede that I get annoyed listening to Ray McGovern ham it up every chance he gets. But beneath that layer you are dealing with a vary capable analyst. If you have a falisification of some detail that he has discussed then bring it on. Other than that, your criticism is mere emotion. A quick dig on Crimea: " In 1921 the [Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Autonomous_Soviet_Socialist_Republic) was created as part of the [Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Soviet_Federative_Socialist_Republic).[[24]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea#cite_note-blacksea-crimea/hist-27) It was [occupied by Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurida_Subdistrict) from 1942 to 1944 during the [Second World War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_campaign). After the Soviets regained control in 1944, they [deported the Crimean Tartars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars) and several other nationalities to elsewhere in the USSR. The autonomous republic was dissolved in 1945, and Crimea became [an oblast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Oblast) of the Russian SFSR. [It was transferred](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_Crimea_in_the_Soviet_Union) to the [Ukrainian SSR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_SSR) in 1954, on the 300th anniversary of the [Treaty of Pereyaslav](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Pereyaslav)." - [Crimea - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea) As far as I can tell that is consistent with McGovern. Not that I treat wikipedia as gospel, and if I did that it wouldn’t mean much either, but sometimes straightforward basic facts get bent in the transfer. I don’t need to become an expert in Crimea nor in novichok. As a whistleblower Ray McGovern is a hero who I believe pursues the truth. Enjoying MSM heroes is a thing too; all paid for and complicit; as they get exposed they’re worn down. Of course a few do exit now and then, and we get the inside story. Could you imagine if Rachel Maddow defected? We’ll have another tuckered insider soon. You have to understand that the disgust that we feel on the outside of the system is pale in comparison to the realizations of the insiders. ---
**Author:** ![sunnyjim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sunnyjim](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/sunnyjim)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 6:42pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/563 "2023-07-19T18:42:26Z")
> [@lausten](#): > > He’s broadcasting that he doesn’t listen to anyone but himself. He bases his analysis as an insider who has seen what was going on and had first hand access to information when he was an analyst and has stated in the video i posted that he relies on many people one being scott ritter to assist in understanding battlefield strategy and outcomes ---
**Author:** ![sunnyjim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sunnyjim](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/sunnyjim)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850/564 "2023-07-19T18:46:36Z")
> [@mriana](#): > > Hostile? It’s Russia that’s hostile, because they started this mess. I’d say it’s Russia that’s hostile and it has always been. It would be extremely difficult and ugly for Russia if they decided to occupy western Ukraine [Previous page](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850.md?page=27) [Next page](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/war-drums-in-the-ukraine/7850.md?page=29)