The publicity over the contraception ruling has caused the ruling on not requiring union dues payment of workers who haven’t joined the union to be ignored.
I think the unions should immediately, while it’s still fresh in the public’s mind, file a suite that workers who opt to forego payment of union dues will not receive the benefits the union negotiates such as pay raises, longer vacations, insurance benefits, pension improvements, etc. Of course, the SCOTUS would either refuse to hear the case of vote against it, however, comparing the two cases, it would demonstrate to the public the court’s bias.
Occam
The publicity over the contraception ruling has caused the ruling on not requiring union dues payment of workers who haven't joined the union to be ignored. I think the unions should immediately, while it's still fresh in the public's mind, file a suite that workers who opt to forego payment of union dues will not receive the benefits the union negotiates such as pay raises, longer vacations, insurance benefits, pension improvements, etc. OccamThat would be like the endings of them old movies where truth and justice prevails after all. Too bad that only seems to work on celluloid.
The publicity over the contraception ruling has caused the ruling on not requiring union dues payment of workers who haven't joined the union to be ignored. I think the unions should immediately, while it's still fresh in the public's mind, file a suite that workers who opt to forego payment of union dues will not receive the benefits the union negotiates such as pay raises, longer vacations, insurance benefits, pension improvements, etc. Of course, the SCOTUS would either refuse to hear the case of vote against it, however, comparing the two cases, it would demonstrate to the public the court's bias. OccamYes, I couldn't agree more with you Occam. I can't believe that people could be in a Union where membership was optional in the first place. Shows what a country of milquetoasts(I had another word here, but I'll respect Forum Rules)we have become..truly!! If provisions aren't made to cut the benefits of non-dues paying, non-member scab employees, then what? I'll tell you what....everyone should stop paying dues in that Union!!! That's what unions are about..equity!! So let everyone get Union Benefits for free, without dues. Then we'll see if the Union wants to fight for 100% membership!! When they start going bankrupt. Alot of these unions need a new injection of starch in their pants. They have become complacent and adrift at sea. Pathetic that it could come down to this, but that just shows how fat, larded and complacent many Unions have become. How could any union ever bargain away it's ability to strike, or to have voluntary membership? Only in the United States of P.T. Barnum!! That's where.
I agree about wimpy union leadership, but the other side of it is the many laws the legislatures have passed that manage to screw the unions in just about every way possible.
Occam
Public employee Unions never had to give away their right to strike. But they did.
Public employee Unions never had to agree to voluntary membership, but they did.
Government employee/teacher’s unions gave this stuff up. It all could have been prevented by striking long ago.
They lost that all to “stick and carrot” type negotiating. Concessions and temporary rewards etc.
A union’s number one power source is striking. That’s it. You take that away and all you have left is lobbying basically.
Lobbying is a two-way street. Striking isn’t.
Essentially, awhile ago, government said to many of it’s employees and teachers," Hey you gotta make us a deal. We will give you other perks, but we have to make it illegal for you to strike. Reason: People need firemen, police officers, and teachers always available etc…"
The unions should have said right then and there, “Hey! Don’t give us a reason to strike, and you won’t have to worry about it.”
It’s that simple really.
No power to strike. Voluntary membership…Tax payer funded payrolls.
What the heck did they think was going to happen down the road?
Supreme Court rulings that are not in their favor…among many other things.
Wow Vy! Where did you get the info that teachers have given up their right to strike? Not here man. This is a fight I’ve been involved in for almost forty years and we did strike, the longest teacher’s strike in history BTW, three years. So no, neither the OEA nor the NEA have given up this right. Without that ability unions are dead in the water. The decline has been contributed to layoffs, the inability of unionized companies to compete with global companies and the newly fired up corporate sentiment against unions. Hell, they even tried to privatize us for heavens sakes. That plus anti union propaganda has driven the membership down to it’s lowest in 70 years. They also dangle the “merit pay” carrot in front of us. If this keeps up it’ll be the gilded age all over again. Restaurant corporations are already readjusting employees hours, cutting them to the bad bone to prevent paying benefits. The workers had better wake up soon and restore the balance of employer/employee relations or suffer the inevitable consequences.
Cap’t Jack
Sorry, Vy, I don’t have much knowledge about unions of public employees. My main history came from my father who was strongly involved in the AFL at the company he worked for. He made sure he never became one of the union executives, but he and a number of others made sure the top guys didn’t either get lax or try to get too much power.
Occam
Wow Vy! Where did you get the info that teachers have given up their right to strike? Not here man. This is a fight I've been involved in for almost forty years and we did strike, the longest teacher's strike in history BTW, three years. So no, neither the OEA nor the NEA have given up this right. Cap't JackI see. In NY State they are not allowed to strike. It's a law. The Taylor law. It applies to most state employees. Cops, Firemen, Teachers, Road Crews etc... I guess my views are a little myopic to NY State. Although the law has been broken in some instances.
Sorry, Vy, I don't have much knowledge about unions of public employees. My main history came from my father who was strongly involved in the AFL at the company he worked for. He made sure he never became one of the union executives, but he and a number of others made sure the top guys didn't either get lax or try to get too much power. OccamThat's good stuff. Unions need those kind of people. Basically participating rank and file members! That's all it takes. Just go to the meetings every once in awhile. It's not hard. I usually tell people-just go for the coffee and donuts at least. At times we used to struggle to even get a quorum. That's always depressing.
Yeah, he always went to the meetings. I remember my mother (who was also a wiseass) commenting good-naturedly, “Come on, those meetings can’t be that interesting. Just tell me if you’re meeting some floozy there.” To which my father would reply something like, “Hey, come on to the meetings with me. Nothing I’d like more than having my own personal floozy sitting by my side.” That usually ended with a wet dish towel being thrown at him. :lol:
Occam
I see. In NY State they are not allowed to strike. It’s a law. The Taylor law. It applies to most state employees. Cops, Firemen, Teachers, Road Crews etc… I guess my views are a little myopic to NY State. Although the law has been broken in some instances.I'm glad it's not universal, yet. We had the Ferguson law in Ohio and fought to have it repealed. We had some State Senators on our side though and one from our area who sponsored the revocation bill. Kasich was chomping at the bit to limit union rights with the right to work law but he lost local support after a massive rally on the statehouse lawn. Can't understand why the unions in NY don't band together and fight this. The method we use includes arbitration well before a strike vote so so far it hasn't come down to an all out strike for more than a few days. Actually,we've gone to Impass several times and settled after "binding arbitration". I guess it's going to take a real kick in the teeth before public AND private workers wake up and realize that they need union protection of their most basic rights. Cap't Jack
Yeah, he always went to the meetings. I remember my mother (who was also a wiseass) commenting good-naturedly, “Come on, those meetings can’t be that interesting. Just tell me if you’re meeting some floozy there." To which my father would reply something like, “Hey, come on to the meetings with me. Nothing I’d like more than having my own personal floozy sitting by my side." That usually ended with a wet dish towel being thrown at him.Ha! We welcomed Floozies at our meetings too. My wife was the union president for several years but she's more like a bulldog than a floozy! :coolgrin: Cap't Jack
Can't understand why the unions in NY don't band together and fight this. The method we use includes arbitration well before a strike vote so so far it hasn't come down to an all out strike for more than a few days. Cap't JackWell without going into the details, they have a special super-type arbitration to make up for their no-strike cause. I don't know all the details. My buddy is a teacher. He has explained it to me. Of course being NY, the employees of the state do enjoy some very good benefits and pensions. Kind of the "carrot" to make up for the "stick". But with the pressure you spoke about of the past 20-30 years....even the state and municipal workers are coming under fire. It's a joke. They dumbed down the majority of the private laborers, took away their Unions, and now the private workers are more content to drag everyone else down with them(union workers both public and private), rather than fight to climb back up out of that hole. It's easier that way. It plays to people's more base reactions. Look at Chattanooga recently with VW. Or any public sector employees. You know the drill VA. It's a joke! Scare people with threats and propaganda and they will be more docile than a rabbit caught in the jaws of coyote. They start thinking their jobs are just a privilege from the company, and they should be just happy to have a job. Ronald Reagan. He started all of this crap. The distribution of wealth was to even for him and his minders.
Scare people with threats and propaganda and they will be more docile than a rabbit caught in the jaws of coyote. They start thinking their jobs are just a privilege from the company, and they should be just happy to have a job. Ronald Reagan. He started all of this crap. The distribution of wealth was to even for him and his minders.Nothing burns my ass more than someone with hat in hand practically begging for their meager wage and living a "by your leave" existence. A strong union guarantees a fair distribution of the profits for those who make the products. No employee I know of is asking for a hand out, and those who are slackers are booted out pretty quick. The counter argument to unions is that they tend to protect these workers, but a contract fairly written to benefit both sides (we in fact have just such a contract) will ensure that everyone gets equal work for equal pay by including steps to fire employees who don't perform. It ain't rocket science and both sides are held to this legal document. Without a contract, or a one sided one, e.g. no strike clause as a last resort, the whole system is skewed and debt peonage develops. And when that happens on a large scale the result is always a revolution. We almost had one at the turn of the last century you know. And nobody wants that to happen in this time period because we're all armed to the teeth. Scary thought that. Cap't Jack