# "Success" **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 16, 2016, 5:20am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024 "2016-05-16T05:20:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![titanomachina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@titanomachina](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/titanomachina)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 5:20am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/1 "2016-05-16T05:20:58Z")
A term that is quite frequently thrown around a lot yet when you begin to dissect it it seems like it’s not what you think it is. Society seems to think that success means having a lucrative job, married, nice house, car, etc… But is that really all there is to it? Isn’t there something more to it than just having money? Happiness is another factor in this but is it right to trade it off for money and security? All the slogans tell one to be successful and to reach for it, but what does it all mean in the end? How do you define success and deal with society’s definition of it? ---
**Author:** ![yosemitesam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7feea3/32.png) [@yosemitesam](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/yosemitesam)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 6:21am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/2 "2016-05-16T06:21:27Z")
> A term that is quite frequently thrown around a lot yet when you begin to dissect it it seems like it's not what you think it is. Society seems to think that success means having a lucrative job, married, nice house, car, etc.. But is that really all there is to it? Isn't there something more to it than just having money? Happiness is another factor in this but is it right to trade it off for money and security? All the slogans tell one to be successful and to reach for it, but what does it all mean in the end? How do you define success and deal with society's definition of it? When I was in high school particularly my senior year, when we were supposed come up with life-plans and such. We once did an aptitude test of college, and the result for me was Law, with was quite the joke considering by the end of high school I just wanted to run as far from "schools" as I could. I kid you not, after much fretting and time passing and me finally graduating, the best I could come up with was that I wanted to get to know the world, I wanted to understand food and cooking and I wanted to understand how houses were built. At 60 I still need to work, though I manage to stash some away and get to take long periods off work to focus on my things. Financial I'm a zero, but I do know how to build a house and I do understand food and cooking and even the restaurant business. I have health and I have experiences and I have been a positive presence in many lives and I have made small differences here and there. And I think I feel about as fulfilled and full of passion for life as anyone. I look around and have many friends financially "successful" - they can never escape the shackles of their bills, income, wealth, keeping up with keeping up, it all seems such a waste so much of the time. When I work, I am 100% there, not that I'm not without my tail chasing, mistakes, backing up and all the rest, but that's just part of the dance, the passion of getting the job done right. As a kid I hated being told what to do and micro managed, I figured out very early the way to get the boss off your ass, was to think on your own feet, learn what needed learning and get the job done right. The extra effort and aggravation was/is well worth the freedom, not to mention the respect. Or regularly getting calls out of the blue, hey Pete are you available for some work? Then I get to go home, I'm 100% home with wife and dog (with only occasional temporary exceptions when a job demands more attention and planning.), now and then I get to sneak off and be 100% with myself and my thoughts and intellectual struggles. Still hoping to write something worthy someday. If I don't make it, that's okay, at least I'm working it and pumping out some half way decent stuff every once in a while, and then I'll be gone. That's why I find the **now** so compelling. I found that old advice: "Live today well (as in honestly and with dignity and respectfulness) and tomorrow will take care of itself," has some traction to it. ---
**Author:** ![yosemitesam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7feea3/32.png) [@yosemitesam](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/yosemitesam)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/3 "2016-05-16T14:51:36Z")
> Then I get to go home, I'm 100% home with wife and dog Nah, in my dreams. There's always that sun rushing through the sky to the end of another, and always too many projects and things to pay attention to and vying for my attention. Triage…. Aggregating and frustration, but the chaos and struggle is also fun in its own way, trying to ride the bull, and it sure beats being bored. See ya, gotta run. ---
**Author:** ![psychosage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@psychosage](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/psychosage)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/4 "2016-05-16T14:57:32Z")
Someone said that success is having the respect of intelligent people. ---
**Author:** ![loisl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/loisl/32/18_2.png) [@loisl](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/loisl)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/5 "2016-05-17T00:47:11Z")
> Someone said that success is having the respect of intelligent people. I like it, but I'm afraid that would create a very small group. A lot of people define "success" by how much money a person can earn. I use the different qualifications, such as emotional stability, a strong sense of responsibility to family and the larger community, kindness. I may think of more. Too many people who can earn a lot of money fail miserably in other areas. I might take that off the list altogether. Lois ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/6 "2016-05-17T01:31:18Z")
A boat. Either that or a classic muscle car, like a Mustang or Camaro. Or, living in the moment, surrounded by people with whom you can express yourself freely. Having enough, but not feeling you are taking more than your share. Working towards something better, knowing there is always something that needs to be done, but not letting that get you stop from trying. ---
**Author:** ![darrons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@darrons](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/darrons)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 4:53am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/7 "2016-05-18T04:53:50Z")
Success is having a short enough memory to forget your failures. ---
**Author:** ![titanomachina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@titanomachina](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/titanomachina)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 6:57am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/8 "2016-05-18T06:57:07Z")
So it wouldn’t be something along the lines of fame or material possessions? ---
**Author:** ![gertdeboer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/gertdeboer/32/1377_2.png) [@gertdeboer](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/gertdeboer)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 9:28am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/9 "2016-05-18T09:28:34Z")
Success is when you reach a goal that you have set yourself. ---
**Author:** ![loisl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/loisl/32/18_2.png) [@loisl](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/loisl)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 11:41am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/10 "2016-05-18T11:41:30Z")
> Success is when you reach a goal that you have set yourself. How about a psychopath's goals? How would you assess his success? Is Charles Manson successful? ---
**Author:** ![gertdeboer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/gertdeboer/32/1377_2.png) [@gertdeboer](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/gertdeboer)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 1:14pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/11 "2016-05-18T13:14:53Z")
> How about a psychopath's goals? How would you assess his success? Is Charles Manson successful? Depends on what his goal really was. But if a goal is immoral, of course we do not agree. The point I am making: without clearly stating what your values are, it is impossible to say if you are successful or not. Titanomachina's question can only be related to goals that are respected in society, the way he asks the question. But some of these goals are immoral too. So in fact Titanomachina's question should be about _values_: the answers concerning success then follow. ---
**Author:** ![yosemitesam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7feea3/32.png) [@yosemitesam](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/yosemitesam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/12 "2016-05-18T13:54:22Z")
> How about a psychopath's goals? How would you assess his success? Is Charles Manson successful? Depends on what his goal really was. But if a goal is immoral, of course we do not agree. The point I am making: without clearly stating what your values are, it is impossible to say if you are successful or not. Titanomachina's question can only be related to goals that are respected in society, the way he asks the question. But some of these goals are immoral too. So in fact Titanomachina's question should be about _values_: the answers concerning success then follow. How would you frame the question? ---
**Author:** ![3point14rat](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/3point14rat/32/26463_2.png) [@3point14rat](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/3point14rat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/13 "2016-05-18T16:02:40Z")
I’d say it’s all relative. If I achieve my goals, I am successful. If the goals I have achieved are, in your opinion immoral or simply irrelevant, then to you I am not successful. We are all on spectrums of the importance of different things (money, giving to others, life experiences, family, friends, keeping up with the Joneses, etc). So how can anyone be universally successful if no two people are on the same place on all the spectrums? Also, and equally important, there’s the factor of personal circumstances to take into account. I would consider someone a success if they overcome huge obstacles to achieve what I can easily accomplish. So it’s not even the end point that counts to me, it’s the distance traveled to get there. This factor may not be so important to others. ---
**Author:** ![titanomachina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@titanomachina](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/titanomachina)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/14 "2016-05-18T16:06:45Z")
> How about a psychopath's goals? How would you assess his success? Is Charles Manson successful? Depends on what his goal really was. But if a goal is immoral, of course we do not agree. The point I am making: without clearly stating what your values are, it is impossible to say if you are successful or not. Titanomachina's question can only be related to goals that are respected in society, the way he asks the question. But some of these goals are immoral too. So in fact Titanomachina's question should be about _values_: the answers concerning success then follow. I'm asking what it means to be successful. Which definition is the right one? Society or the person? Is it success when the person meets a goal by can't fit with society? Success is such a vague word. Also what if suicide is your goal? Or murder? Do you act on that even though society says otherwise? Aren't the values that you claim are part of how you define success obtained from society? Would that make your goals the same as that of society? Success is such a vague term, it's like when you pick it apart you see how empty the meaning is. ---
**Author:** ![3point14rat](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/3point14rat/32/26463_2.png) [@3point14rat](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/3point14rat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/15 "2016-05-18T16:22:01Z")
> Success is such a vague term, it's like when you pick it apart you see how empty the meaning is. Just because a word doesn't lend itself to a global consensus doesn't mean it's empty. There are lots of crappy words in the English language that cause grief when different people have different definitions of it, but "success" isn't one of them. We all know what it means, we just vary in how we apply it to all the different aspects of a person. Unless it's used in science (as in a species being called 'successful') the fact that it gets different responses from different people just means that we have to be more specific when using it. Define the way a person is successful (financialy, strong friendships, incredible life experiences, happy kids, etc) when you use it. Don't throw the word around without a qualifier and you won't have any problems. ---
**Author:** ![titanomachina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@titanomachina](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/titanomachina)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/16 "2016-05-18T16:29:25Z")
I think it’s because there is no consensus on the term that it’s meaningless. What is there to strive for if there isn’t an agreed upon definition of what that is? ---
**Author:** ![loisl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/loisl/32/18_2.png) [@loisl](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/loisl)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/17 "2016-05-18T16:56:23Z")
> I think it's because there is no consensus on the term that it's meaningless. What is there to strive for if there isn't an agreed upon definition of what that is? "Success" is a completely subjective term. It means whatever an individual thinks it means. There is no absolute definition of success anymore than there is an absolute definitiion of love or sadness or grief or happiness or god. ---
**Author:** ![titanomachina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@titanomachina](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/titanomachina)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/18 "2016-05-18T16:59:49Z")
So then what’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![3point14rat](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/3point14rat/32/26463_2.png) [@3point14rat](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/3point14rat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/19 "2016-05-18T17:00:59Z")
> I think it's because there is no consensus on the term that it's meaningless. What is there to strive for if there isn't an agreed upon definition of what that is? I think my last post explained pretty clearly that the word is perfectly fine even though it is uniquely applied by each of us, **if and only if** the specific factors it is being used to rate are given. I wrote my last post again with a few minor changes. Now see if you get my point... _Although the word 'success' doesn’t lend itself to a global consensus, that doesn’t mean it’s empty or meaningless or useless. There are lots of crappy words in the English language that cause confusion when different people have different definitions of them, but “success" isn’t one of them. We all know what it means, we just vary in how we apply it to the different aspects of a person. The fact that it gets different responses from different people just means that when the word is used, the aspect(s) of the subjects life that are being called as success must be identified. In other words, you need to define the way a person is successful (financially, strong friendships, incredible life experiences, happy kids, etc) when you use the word 'success'. Don’t throw the word around without a qualifier and you won’t have any problems._ ---
**Author:** ![titanomachina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@titanomachina](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/titanomachina)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024/20 "2016-05-18T17:19:58Z")
Your explaination proves the word isn’t fine as is. Because if it isn’t universal then there is nothing to aspire to? If it’s different based on the person then it’s meaningless to use as you can call pretty much anything successful. Even the qualifiers to measure are meaningless if we shift them from person to person. It only matters if there is a standard to which to adhere to. [Next page](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/success/5024.md?page=2)