# SCARY: On the Evangelical threat to American Democracy **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics and Social Issues\ **Created:** [November 16, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/scary-on-the-evangelical-threat-to-american-democracy/6844 "2019-11-16T13:48:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/scary-on-the-evangelical-threat-to-american-democracy/6844/1 "2019-11-16T13:48:19Z")
> The version of the pledge to the Christian flag typically recited in fundamentalist and evangelical schools, which usually self-identify simply as Christian schools, ends with “one Savior, crucified, risen, and coming again with life and liberty for all who believe.” ... > > (…they are standard practice in these schools, approximately 2,000 of which are subsidized by taxpayer funds.) > > … If you want an answer to the question of where President Trump’s white evangelical base was radicalized, it’s right here. More: [https://conversationalist.org/2019/11/14/if-we-want-to-save-american-democracy-we-must-have-a-very-difficult-conversation-about-evangelical-christianity/](https://conversationalist.org/2019/11/14/if-we-want-to-save-american-democracy-we-must-have-a-very-difficult-conversation-about-evangelical-christianity/)     FWIW, I “know” the author of this piece, in that we have communicated quite a bit online. She’s a credible writer to follow on these issues. _Chrissy Stroop is a freelance writer, public speaker, and commentator on religion and politics, the U.S. Christian right, Russia, and foreign policy. She is a senior researcher with the Postsecular Conflicts project at the University of Innsbruck._ _Stroop graduated from Stanford University with a Ph.D. in Modern Russian History and Interdisciplinary Studies in the Humanities, then then taught at a Russian university in Moscow._ _She writes for Foreign Policy, Political Research Associates, Religion Dispatches, The Moscow Times, Eurasianet, Playboy & Dame Magazine._ Her award-winning book on leaving Evangelical Christianity will soon be released: > **[Empty the Pews](https://www.emptythepews.epiphanypublishing.us/)** > > The book page for Empty the Pews (2019), edited by Chrissy Stroop and Lauren O'Neal. And this is one of her most important pieces, IMHO… I’m working on a different piece on the same topic. > **[About those Trump Voters for God? Stop Calling them “Fake Christians”](https://cstroop.com/2017/05/03/about-those-trump-voters-for-god-stop-calling-them-fake-christians/)** > > In an era of “fake news,” “fake science,” and even “fake law,” I suppose it was inevitable the term “fake Christians” would pop up. On Twitter, it…   ---
**Author:** ![timb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@timb](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/timb)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/scary-on-the-evangelical-threat-to-american-democracy/6844/2 "2019-11-16T18:31:00Z")
Do atheists have any state supported private schools where the children are required to pledge allegiance to Darwinian ideas and secularism? I think they should, just to send a message.   Also, I really don’t get how the contemporary prosperity gospel was able to overcome the sheer hypocrisy of taking the Jesus character as its principal figure, considering the Jesus story was pretty much the opposite of advocating for the accumulation of wealth. ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/scary-on-the-evangelical-threat-to-american-democracy/6844/3 "2019-11-17T20:46:55Z")
**@timb** > Do atheists have any state supported private schools where the children are required to pledge allegiance to Darwinian ideas and secularism? According to many Conservative Christians, yes. In fact, there are more than 130,000\* of them across the nation. In these schools, you see, teachers can’t lead students in prayer or teach the Bible as literal truth. They require students to learn the theory of evolution in science class – or at least give pro-Darwinian answers on tests if they don’t want to flunk. In health class, kids learn about human reproduction, and in social studies they learn about cultural relativity. While many of the students in these schools still include the “Under God” part of the Pledge, some groups are asking the reference to a deity be removed and the[Pledge returned to its pre-1954 version.](https://constitutioncenter.orgblog/the-latest-controversy-about-under-god-in-the-pledge-of-allegiance) To Conservative Christians, these factors are enough to consider **all** public K-12 schools the equivalent of _“state-supported private schools where the children are required to pledge allegiance to Darwinian ideas and secularism._” That’s why a majority of the 1,689,726 homeschooled students in the US are Conservative Christians. The ones who do send their kids to public secular schools constantly spread total bullshit about secularism, with help from folks like the [idiotic “God’s Not Dead” franchise.](https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/4/3/17180138/gods-not-dead-light-darkness-evangelical-christian-persecution-race) > Also, I really don’t get how the contemporary prosperity gospel was able to overcome the sheer hypocrisy of taking the Jesus character as its principal figure, considering the Jesus story was pretty much the opposite of advocating for the accumulation of wealth. Actually, this makes perfect sense if you look at the history of American Protestantism starting in Colonial times. The Puritans were Calvinists who believed God chose the “elect” and the damned at the beginning of time. No one would know for certain which group they were in until the judgement after their death. But they were curious, and it seemed logical that people who were fortunate, healthy and wealthy were favored by God, and those who were unlucky, sick and poor were rejected by God… literally, unGodly. While the Puritans operated charities for the destitute, per Jesus, they also had little empathy for them – they were, after all, unredeemed sinners in the eyes of God. OTOH, the higher, priveledged classes were “the elect,” so displays of wealth sent the message that a household was favored by the Lord. The Puritan and Anabaptist Reformed theology evolved into today’s Evangelicalsm. It makes sense they approve of wealth and denigrate the poor. As for them being “hypocritical,” Jesus said a lot of things. I think liberal Christians cherry-pick as much as Conservative Christians do. * * * _\*There are 132,853 K-12 schools in the U.S., according to 2015-16 data from the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES)._ ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/scary-on-the-evangelical-threat-to-american-democracy/6844/4 "2019-11-16T21:51:43Z")
Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/scary-on-the-evangelical-threat-to-american-democracy/6844/5 "2019-11-16T21:52:24Z")
In moderation No images. But links ---
**Author:** ![timb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@timb](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/timb)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/scary-on-the-evangelical-threat-to-american-democracy/6844/6 "2019-11-16T21:58:46Z")
3 or 4 yrs ago, with the previous system, there would be occasional blockings of posts with certain kinds of links. I can see how more sites might be deemed suspicious these days. Hopefully there will be a way to calibrate that, if that is the issue. ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 10:00pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/scary-on-the-evangelical-threat-to-american-democracy/6844/7 "2019-11-16T22:00:54Z")
Well, @Timb, I did respond… hopefully it shows up soon. ---
**Author:** ![timb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@timb](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/timb)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 10:07pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/scary-on-the-evangelical-threat-to-american-democracy/6844/8 "2019-11-16T22:07:14Z")
I’ll see it eventually. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/scary-on-the-evangelical-threat-to-american-democracy/6844/9 "2019-11-17T19:16:12Z")
@lausten @mriana Still in moderation: November 16, 2019 at 9:51 pm #313372, my response to @timb ---
**Author:** ![timb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@timb](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/timb)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/scary-on-the-evangelical-threat-to-american-democracy/6844/10 "2019-11-17T21:37:58Z")
Then I must have been a “liberal” Christian when I was a young child growing up in a Southern Baptist Church as I must have cherry picked my understanding of Jesus being so humble, and kind to unfortunate persons, so loving, a teacher of relinquishment of wealth vs spiritual salvation. And I recall that the only time Jesus himself became physically violent with people was when he whipped the money changers out of the Temple. So that was the “cherry picking” of a child who was saved and baptized at 7 yoa. Who went to Sunday school and Sunday morning sermon and Sunday evening sermon, and Wednesday night mtgs., every week. And Vacation Bible School every summer. And often, other church related activities, including Royal Ambassadors for Christ (sort of a weak religious version of Boy Scouts, I guess). By no fault of his own, that young boy was wildly mislead, but I trust his interpretation. And guess what? That young boy… that young boy was _me!_ … Oh yeah, I already told you that. ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/scary-on-the-evangelical-threat-to-american-democracy/6844/11 "2019-11-18T15:03:01Z")
@Timb > Then I must have been a “liberal” Christian when I was a young child growing up in a Southern Baptist Church as I must have cherry picked my understanding of Jesus First, Tim: _I sympathize!_ I don't know how old you are, so I don't know the era in which you were a young child. But it has been demonstrated, documented, and written about pretty extensively that today’s Evangelical Christians aren’t the Evangelical Christians of 25 or 50 years ago. That they have been moving to the Right since the Reagan administration. That is why I often say “today’s Evangelicals.” This thinking is bizarre to me as well, as a child in the Midwest in the 1970s. It isn’t how us older folks understood Jesus at all!! Second and third, I don’t know your exact Southern Baptist church or pastor, as there is a WIDE spectrum of politics among Southern Baptists, even today. Every single thing I say needs qualifiers … usually, most, not all.   ---
**Author:** ![timb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@timb](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/timb)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/scary-on-the-evangelical-threat-to-american-democracy/6844/12 "2019-11-18T21:13:11Z")
@TeeBryanPeneguy I am a wee bit older than you. So what you said is consistent. (Older versions of the Evangelicals were not as hypocritical as the newer ones.) That little boy was going thru that, thru out the 1960’s. And yes, you may have guessed, that little boy was me. ---
**Author:** ![timb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@timb](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/timb)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/scary-on-the-evangelical-threat-to-american-democracy/6844/13 "2019-11-18T22:42:34Z")
How’s this for a 1st preacher? [http://bpnews.net/45091/james-dunn-soul-freedom-firebrand-dies-at-83](http://bpnews.net/45091/james-dunn-soul-freedom-firebrand-dies-at-83)