# On smart people believing stupid things **URL:** \ **Category:** Religion and Secularism\ **Created:** [September 16, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678 "2019-09-16T14:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/21 "2019-09-17T15:47:04Z")
@Mriana “The Passion of the Christ.” **No. Just fucking no.** _Violence porn, created by racist, homophobic, antisemitic, abusive drunk, Mel Gibson._ My stepson Christo was about 12 when that came out, and his Fundy mom took him to it, along with their church’s youth group. (!) My ex _(again, he was an Eastern Orthodox priest)_ and I were not happy. At all. We objected to it on principle. Many principals. My ex and I were SUPER “into” film. It wasn’t (just) that it was violent, and for Christo’s age. (“Kill Bill” and “Se7en” were two of our favorite films, and we let Christo watch them with us. In certain ways, our parenting was very “liberal,” and that really pissed off Biomom.) No, it was the grotesque, gratuitous, numbing violence IN THIS STORY, _to elicit guilt_ in the viewer (Look what Jesus endured for you!) Since Orthodox don’t have Substitutionary Atonement, or Original Sin in the same way Catholics & Protestants do, extreme focus on Jesus’ suffering strikes most of them as grotesque and disrespectful. And this was extreme. I never did see it myself, but I know it was the most violent “R” film made up until that time, missing an MPAA rating by like 2 frames. And why…? Beyond that, we both thought Gibson was an asshole. Of course, it didn’t mean much to Christo. When we asked about it, he shrugged, and compared it to some action movies. I AM interested in watching it to hear the language and see the cinematography, but I wouldn’t pay because I don’t want to see past the arrest. > The Passion of the Christ opened in the United States on February 25, 2004 ... It earned $83,848,082 in its opening weekend... ranking the biggest weekend debut for a February release, until **Fifty Shades of Grey was released.\*** > > It went on to earn $370,782,930 in the United States, and remains the highest grossing R film in the domestic market. - BWAAHAAHAHAA!!   ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/22 "2019-09-17T15:59:53Z")
@lausten > I would like to see more discussion about religious thinking Tangentially, this reminds me of why **I support teaching basic comparative religion in high schools** , unlike many atheists. I feel like _one unit_ should be _required (_with a nationwide curriculum), with basic history and definitions of the largest world religions, as well as defining atheism, agnosticism etc. My reasoning: I have noted that Americans are incredibly Christocentric, and unaware of diversity. Many think Christians are 90% of the world’s population and that Christianity is the world’s oldest religion, anong other things. Realizing that many other religions exist, and that their believers are _just as convinced_ in theirs as Christians are of Christianity, paves the way for rationality and skepticism. It is religious illiteracy that brought us Trump. “Teaching religion” and “teaching ABOUT religion” are two different things. We remain ignorant at our own peril. ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/23 "2019-09-17T16:00:31Z")
I’m gonna make that a separate post. ---
**Author:** ![3point14rat](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/3point14rat/32/26463_2.png) [@3point14rat](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/3point14rat)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/24 "2019-09-17T16:15:32Z")
> ...I support teaching basic comparative religion in high schools, unlike many atheists. I'm on board with that 100%. There will be a lot fewer religious people if that were to happen. It won’t happen. There’s no way an impartial and fair curriculum would be allowed by any religion. They would demand that they get to create how their religions are taught, and the same glossing over of the terrible parts (most of it) would happen. You’d end up with church in school.   ---
**Author:** ![mriana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mriana/32/18174_2.png) [@mriana](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mriana)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/25 "2019-09-17T16:18:40Z")
@teebryantoo > “The Passion of the Christ.” > > No. Just fucking no. > > Violence porn, created by racist, homophobic, antisemitic, abusive drunk, Mel Gibson. Exactly. We were crying… at the theatre! Mother and son crying, while little brother wanted to see it again. Many times my older son and I have said “no” in unison. That was one of them. ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/26 "2019-09-17T17:05:51Z")
[I’d really like to know how the UK pulls it off. Seems like it’s taken decades to get to where they are.](https://www.interfaith.org.uk/activity/religious-education) ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/27 "2019-09-17T17:09:53Z")
@3point14rat @lausten I just posted the topic in Religion & Secularism Can you comment there?     ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/28 "2019-09-17T17:40:38Z")
**@citizenschallengev3** > Are we talking a hollywood movie Wait, am I reading this right? Had you not heard of Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ?" ---
**Author:** ![blaire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ebca7d/32.png) [@blaire](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/blaire)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/29 "2019-09-17T20:28:36Z")
@Tee Extraordinary Video ? Alex O’Connor is a Superb Young Man!! He nailed it when he said “I value Truth more than Comfort” ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/30 "2019-09-17T22:36:06Z")
A few threads within this thread. Here’s more on the “what people want religion to be” theme. From Dietrich Bonhoeffer the German theologian who died in prison at the hand of Hitler: > The attack of the Christian apologetic upon the adulthood of the world I consider to be in the first place pointless, in the second ignoble, and in the third un-Christian. Pointless, because it looks to me like an attempt to put a grown-up man back into adolescence, i.e. to make him dependent on things on which he is not in fact dependent any more, thrusting him back into the midst of problems which are in fact not problems for him anymore. Ignoble, because this amounts to an effort to exploit the weakness of man for purposes alien to him and not freely subscribed to by him. Un-Christian because for Christ himself is being substituted one particular stage in the religiousness of man. Unfortunately I think the apologetics did win. They became the dominant face of Christianity, in America at least. They returned people to adolescence and put old problems of the age of the earth and where morals come from back in the forefront. ---
**Author:** ![citizenschallengev3](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/citizenschallengev3/32/17_2.png) [@citizenschallengev3](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/citizenschallengev3)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/31 "2019-09-17T23:26:36Z")
Well, yes Tee I have heard of Gibson’s movie - not seen it, no interest in it. What’s important is that it has as much to do with “Jesus’s Passion” as Madonna the pop star has to do with Madonna the ‘Virgin Mary.’ And in fact JC Superstar is basically another version of the same “Passion of Jesus.” The stations of the cross and all that. I’d think you’d be more familiar with that than me. ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/32 "2019-09-18T00:20:10Z")
⚛ 1// @blaire > Extraordinary Video > > Alex O’Connor is a Superb Young Man!! Right?? Had you seen Alex before this? I recently discovered him, and I’m making my way through all his stuff. (His voice is so soothing.) He’d be extremely intelligent, insightful, knowledgable, thoughtful and articulate if he were 35. **But he’s 20.** Practically an argument for God ? People say he reminds them of Hitch. I honestly don’t know of Hitch that well. (Wasn’t Hitch sometimes kind of rude? Because I LIKE that Alex is _respectful_.) I listen to a lot of atheist Youtubers & podcasters, and Alex is the most rational and even-tempered. I’m posting a few of my favorirs of his videos, for anyone interested. (Very often he points out things others aren’t saying.) _ **❂** _ Dennis Prager is Wrong About the 10 Commandments [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z19eLF51bmM) FANTASTIC takedown of Prager. Right out of the gate he points out that there are **THREE versions** of the 10 Commandments in Genesis, and the only one CALLED “the Commandments,” and given by God on stone tablets, is a version most people haven’t heard of. Almost no one points this out!! _13 minutes_ @mikeyohe should watch this one since he really believes morality and law came from the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 12:25am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/33 "2019-09-18T00:25:48Z")
⚛ 2// @blaire Are We Intelligently Designed? [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/centerforinquiry/original/2X/1/1b333f49c1d211ebf306d5348f3d9cafac160601.jpeg "Were We Intelligently Designed? (+5,000 Subscribers!)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reLZ9qmKOII) HE WAS 17 YEARS OLD HERE. This one is for @holmes. _11 minutes_   ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 12:30am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/34 "2019-09-18T00:30:15Z")
⚛ 3// @blaire Liberal Hypocrisy About Islam [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z19eLF51bmM) @timb He does not get much into the theology of Islam here (he does in other videos). But in terms of the liberals’ lack of internal consistency in their arguments, this this this this this. **9 minutes**     ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 12:33am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/35 "2019-09-18T00:33:48Z")
⚛ 4// @blaire Response to JW anti-gay video [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/centerforinquiry/original/2X/b/bca7b56a2cba5853ab3429a411da30b6decc02b1.jpeg "Response To The Jehovah's Witness Anti-Gay Indoctrination Video | Lesson 22: One Man, One Woman") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_uDx2OJe2U) He is SIXTEEN here. This is one of his top videos, and he apologizes for swearing. (He doesn’t swear in his later vids.)   _8 minutes_ ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/36 "2019-09-18T00:41:14Z")
⚛ 5// @blaire With You, original song by Alex O’Connor [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/centerforinquiry/original/3X/d/a/da4d71817dcb139d23dbfb5e0d9f82cb50846277.jpeg "With You - Original Song") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8FFIm2VfCQ) OH MY GOD I’M DEAD He was 16 here, and he wrote this. ? I _just now_ discovered his other channel. I had NO idea he does music too, and this song is BEAUTIFUL. How can ONE KID have this much going for him? Kinda scary. ❤??? I’m a 55-year-old woman, crushing on a 20-year old kid 4,000 miles away, and I don’t even know if he is gay or straight. The comments below reveal I’m not alone. Men & women are all saying the same thing! LOL     ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 1:39am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/37 "2019-09-18T01:39:23Z")
_DAMN!! post vanished ???_ _Again, quick_ @citizenschallengev3 Sorry, it sounded like you hadn’t heard of it. I have not seen it either, but read a lot about it. Actually I would like to see parts of it because they speak Aramaic. > What’s important is that it has as much to do with “Jesus’s Passion”as Madonna the pop star has to do with Madonna the ‘Virgin Mary.’ ????   Maybe you don’t know what the word “passion” means in this context? > In Christianity, the Passion (from Late Latin: passionem, lit. "suffering, enduring") is the short final period in the life of Jesus beginning with his triumphal entry into Jerusalem and ending with his crucifixion and his death on Good Friday. That is the exact timeline the movie portrays. It is just like "passion plays" held usually by Catholic churches. So it has to do with “the passion” quite literally.   > And in fact JC Superstar is basically another version of the same “Passion of Jesus.” Yes, but in the same way "Schindlers List" and "The Producers" are both just different versions of the Holocaust ? ---
**Author:** ![timb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@timb](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/timb)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:44am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/38 "2019-09-18T03:44:55Z")
Oh My. Your cougar-ish admirations of the young man, are cute. I admire his paradigm for maintaining internal philosophical consistency and intellectual integrity. ---
**Author:** ![widdershins](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/widdershins/32/18_2.png) [@widdershins](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/widdershins)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/39 "2019-09-19T18:20:33Z")
Intelligence really has nothing to do with beliefs at all. That’s more psychology and the subconscious, which is in a battle with the conscious when there is a particularly unintelligent belief which we, as intelligent people, might hold. That’s why some Christians really want to get their religious doctrine back into schools. If you want a grown man to believe in magic you have to teach a little boy that belief in magic is acceptable and right and then wait for him to grow up. Given the right motivation you can convince yourself any stupid belief is true, no matter your level of intellect. In fact, may people here likely hold a stupid belief or two. When a Christian says to you that evolution is a lie, do you try to convince them otherwise? If you do it’s because you hold the belief that you, untrained in biology or genetics or any related field, are qualified to understand evolution enough to give an informed response. You are not. You know what the experts tell you, which means you know what they say to the public in a way that even an idiot could understand it. You likely know nothing whatsoever about the actual science. You certainly are not qualified to hold your own opinion on the matter unless you have qualifying training. The laymen’s opinion should not be well thought out and reasoned, it should be whatever the peer review process tells them is right. As laymen we are simply not qualified to reason out complex scientific principles, which is why the peer review process is in place, to give us our opinions on complex matters we cannot possibly understand without incurring the time and expense of the education required for us to understand. In fact, this is exactly the misconception about our qualifications that the “teach the controversy” movement tried to exploit to get intelligent design creationism into the classroom. They made the very reasonable sounding argument that you should teach both sides and let the students decide. It sounded very fair on the surface. But the reality was that 9th graders were not qualified to draw conclusions of the validity of a scientific theory, especially when they were only given the very tiny fraction of the information believed to be simple enough for even less intelligent children to understand. To be qualified to decide for themselves they needed about 8 more years of schooling. It was intended to hold 150 years of science on equal ground with a brand new method of magical thinking. ---
**Author:** ![teebryantoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@teebryantoo](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/teebryantoo)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678/40 "2019-09-19T18:55:08Z")
@widdershins I totally agree. I just want to add one thing that people forget when they say, “Why don’t we teach BOTH sides (Darwin and Genesis?)” Because to be REALLY FAIR, then we would also have to teach: **List of creation myths** Creation from chaos Cheonjiwang Bonpuri (a Korean creation myth) Enûma Eliš (Babylonian creation myth) Genesis creation myth (Christianity, Islam and Judaism) Greek cosmogonical myth Jamshid Kumulipo Leviathan (Book of Job 38-41 creation myth) Mandé creation myth Pangu Raven in Creation Serer creation myth Sumerian creation myth Tungusic creation myth Unkulunkulu Väinämöinen Viracocha Earth diverEdit Ainu creation myth Cherokee creation myth Väinämöinen Yoruba creation myth Ob-Ugric creation myth EmergenceEdit Hopi creation myth Maya creation of the world myth Diné Bahaneʼ (Navajo) Zuni creation myth Ex nihilo (out of nothing)Edit Debate between sheep and grain Barton cylinder Ancient Egyptian creation myths Kabezya-Mpungu Māori myths Mbombo Ngai Popol Vuh World ParentEdit Coatlicue Enûma Eliš Greek cosmogonical myth Heliopolis creation myth Hiranyagarbha creation myth Kumulipo Rangi and Papa Völuspá Divine twinsEdit Proto-Indo-European creation myths RegionalEdit AfricaEdit Ancient Egyptian creation myths Fon creation myth Kaang creation story (Bushmen) Kintu myth (Bugandan) Mandé creation myth Mbombo (Kuba, Bakuba or Bushongo/Boshongo) Ngai (Kamba, Kikuyu and Maasai ) Serer creation myth (cosmogony of the Serer people of Senegal, the Gambia and Mauritania) Unkulunkulu (Zulu) Yoruba creation AmericasEdit MesoamericaEdit Coatlicue (Aztec) Maya creation of the world myth Popol Vuh (Quiché Mayan) Mid North AmericaEdit Anishinaabeg creation stories Cherokee creation myth Choctaw creation myth Creek creation myth Hopi creation myth Kuterastan (Plains Apache) Diné Bahaneʼ (Navajo) Raven in Creation (Tlingit, Haida, and Tsimshian) Zuni creation myth South AmericaEdit Legend of Trentren Vilu and Caicai Vilu (Chilean) Viracocha (Incan) Xolas (Chilean) AsiaEdit Central AsiaEdit Mongolian creation myth Tungusic creation myth East AsiaEdit Ainu creation myth (Japan) Au Co (Vietnamese) Chinese creation myth Cheonjiwang Bonpuli (Korean) Dangun creation myth (Korean) Japanese creation myth Nüwa (Chinese) Pangu (Chinese) Samseonghyeol legend (Korean) Indian subcontinentEdit Ajativada Buddhist cosmology Folk Hindu creation myth Hiranyagarbha creation (India) Jainism and non-creationism (India) Mimamsa eternalism (India) Nyaya-Vaisheshika atomic theory (India) Samkhya-yoga theory (India) Sanamahi creation myth (India) EuropeEdit Greek cosmogonical myth (Greek) Pelasgian creation myth (Greek) Väinämöinen (Finnish) Völuspá (Norse) Raelian creation myth (French) Middle EastEdit Debate between sheep and grain Enûma Eliš (Babylonian) Genesis creation myth (Hebrew) Islamic creation myth (Arabic) Mashya and Mashyana (Persian) Sumerian creation myth Leviathan (Book of Job 38-41 creation myth) Pacific Islands/OceanicEdit Areop-Enap (Nauruan) Kumulipo (Hawaiian) Māori myths (Māori) Rangi and Papa (Māori) Sureq Galigo (Buginese)   [Previous page](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/on-smart-people-believing-stupid-things/6678.md?page=3)