Yes, Abdul, we should be skeptical of all ideologies, and upon all systems based upon ideological foundations that don’t allow for rigorous self-examination and that don’t have mechanisms for checking and balancing the power to do harm to others.
My contention is that ideologies based on the existence of a mythical all powerful ruling God, are not easily amenable to rigorous self examination, and effective checks and balances on the power of their proponents to harm others.
E.g., the Constitution of the U.S. has mechanisms by which the Constitution can be changed. The Quran, being the believed final immutable word of Allah, for mankind, cannot be changed.
For instance, although, unlikely now, the 2nd Amendment could someday be changed so that it is clear to everyone that it is not acceptable to carry an assault type weapon into your local restaurant. Although, unlikely, now, the Constitution could be changed to ban the private ownership of guns. But nothing in the Quran, can be changed, and thus it will perpetually be subject to various interpretations, and perpetually justified by the believer’s belief that it is the will of Allah, that must be submitted to.
And Abdul, I do recognize your assertion that Islam does have some intrinsic mechanism for self control, i.e., the veneration of Islamic scholars. But it seems to me that this is currently inadequate, and will inevitably be ultimately inadequate, due to the essential flaw of dogma, itself, which is the mandate to believe without regards to evidence.
And Abdul, I do recognize your assertion that Islam does have some intrinsic mechanism for self control, i.e., the veneration of Islamic scholars. But it seems to me that this is currently inadequate, and will inevitably be ultimately inadequate, due to the essential flaw of dogma, itself, which is the mandate to believe without regards to evidence.All religions are prone to corruption. It has happened to Islam as well as Christianity, no religion is immune. That's another reason to keep religion at bay and, most importantly, out of government. Lois
Is there really any difference between: “The Devil made me do it”, and "God made me do it? Not really.
Is there really any difference between: “The Devil made me do it", and “God made me do it? Not really.None. Just ask a schizophrenic. Both are supernatural human constructs but if you're a psychopath you don't need an excuse. Muslims could just as easily substitute a Djinn for the Devil. Historically, many crimes were committed by devout believers reciting the creed "God wills it". Cap't Jack
Muslims have Shaytan, aka (to Christians) Satan.
Seems to me that when countries decided to separate secular laws from religious laws that religious crime went down. While America is a very violent country due to the abundance of easily obtained guns, fewer religiously motivated crimes are committed.Is there any study done on a country when it was based on religious law (and I do mean an actual study, not a news story) Dont know much about say Budhhist and hindu history, but with regards to Islam Promoting fear of Shariah law is essentially a red herring. There are more than 50 predominantly Muslim countries in the world, and, while most have elements of Shariah in their civil and family law, only two have it as their criminal codes. They are Saudi Arabia and Iran, The countries that do not have Shariah as their criminal codes have modeled their laws on European and American models, some borrowing from Roman law and others from British common law. http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2012/04/03/the-islamophobia-excuse/ Thus its kind of hard to tell becuase that would mean having to do a study on solely the criminal justice aspects of Saudi Arabia and Iran while putting aside things like *economics *social norms *foreign policies etc There are some chapters dedicated to that in this book http://books.google.com/books?id=ft0r5H1tviUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:T9Cj8_Y80nkC&hl=en&sa=X&ei=78ucU5TJDOfI8wGiv4GwDg&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=chapter 9&f=false
And Abdul, I do recognize your assertion that Islam does have some intrinsic mechanism for self control, i.e., the veneration of Islamic scholars. But it seems to me that this is currently inadequate, and will inevitably be ultimately inadequate,Why is it inadequate, as Dr Kurzman has emphasized there is literally 0.1% of Muslims who use violence for religion. But even I grant that for sake of arguement this still holds for any ideology. Does anyone want to blame democracy for the abuse of power of our government in the past few years?
due to the essential flaw of dogma, itself, which is the mandate to believe without regards to evidence.Interesting claim, but where does Islam state that? Personally, I consider a freethinker one who realizes the need to study before giving an opinion. Many of them are often dead wrong, but they at least question the assumptions they were raised with and study. From what I've seen 1. A good chunk of people never question what they have been raised with. Most religious people dont question their faith 2. Those who do question do not study. Athiests accept anti religion claims without ever studying religion in depth Muslims and Christians only listen to their clerics about why their faith is correct. 3. Those who realize that their beliefs could be wrong. AND that their personal opinions mean absolutely nothing without studying and checking the facts Bart Ehrman ---questioned his christian faith and studied for several years before choosing to become agnostic. Mike Licone -----also questioned his christian faith and even did a PhD before making a decision that it was the faith he wanted to follow, Hamza Yusuf ------ prefers to stay informed of the topics he speaks about. http://sheikhhamza.com/recommendations/1
And Abdul, I do recognize your assertion that Islam does have some intrinsic mechanism for self control, i.e., the veneration of Islamic scholars. But it seems to me that this is currently inadequate, and will inevitably be ultimately inadequate,Why is it inadequate, as Dr Kurzman has emphasized there is literally 0.1% of Muslims who use violence for religion... Because (regardless of the accuracy, or inaccuracy, of that percentage) there are literally, hundreds, if not thousands, of Islamic terrorist groups that have and/or are continuing to engage in violence, all about the world, within in the last half century. The number of such organizations appears to be increasing. Also, the number of Muslims committing violent acts, individually, in the name of Allah, seems to be increasing.
...Really, Abdul? Would you argue that Islam is completely evidence based, without any faith based foundational beliefs? e.g., What is the evidence that Muhammad is the final prophet? For that matter, what is the evidence base for the actual existence of anyone who has ever communicated to "God" as an emissary to humanity? For that matter, what is the evidence base for the existence of Allah? Short answer: You just have to decide to believe in such things, regardless of lack of evidence or evidence to the contrary. i.e., You have to buy in to dogma.due to the essential flaw of dogma, itself, which is the mandate to believe without regards to evidence.Interesting claim, but where does Islam state that? ...
...Personally, I consider a freethinker one who realizes the need to study before giving an opinion. Many of them are often dead wrong, but they at least question the assumptions they were raised with and study...Agreed.
Because (regardless of the accuracy, or inaccuracy, of that percentage) there are literally, hundreds, if not thousands, of Islamic terrorist groups that have and/or are continuing to engage in violence, all about the world, within in the last half century. The number of such organizations appears to be increasing. Also, the number of Muslims committing violent acts, individually, in the name of Allah, seems to be increasing.You might want to consider that modern terrorism is highly comparable to, and possibly even greater than, the terrorism of the 1970s and 1980s. (See Dr. Kuzman's promotional video at 1:45 time slice http://kurzman.unc.edu/the-missing-martyrs/) This is confirmed by a 2010 RAND report which states The volume of domestic terrorist activity was much greater in the 1970s than it is today. That decade saw 60 to 70 terrorist incidents, most of them bombings, on U.S. soil every year—a level of terrorist activity 15 to 20 times that seen in most of the years since 9/11, even counting foiled plots as incidents. http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/occasional_papers/2010/RAND_OP292.pdf page viii The perpetrators of these crimes were non-religious terrorist organizations Bruce Hoffman stated in his 1993 RAND article "Holy Terror"(page 5) that they consistuted a total of 70% of all fatalities. With this in mind, is it enough to say that a non-religious ideology also provides the "framework" to promote terrorism? We both will hopefully agree the answer is no. That being said any ideology must be judged positive or negative largely on how its foundation was laid by its thinkers.
There is also the problem of what defines terrorism. Mr. Nima Shirazi has a good article on this.
Short answer: You just have to decide to believe in such things, regardless of lack of evidence or evidence to the contrary. i.e., You have to buy in to dogma.I assume you want to know the studying I have done. The following list includes only the sources I am very familliar with. Other than those, there are many other references as well. I studied to understand Judaism and how historians use the old testament To understand how scholars understand the historical truths behind some of the old testament stories (Samuel, Saul, Elisha, Elias, Jonah) I consulted New world encyclopedia Myjewishlearning.com Encyclopedia Britannica 1, 2 Samuel By Robert D. Bergen page 28 Foundations of Contemporary Interpretation edited by V. Philips Long, Moisés Silva page 396 Knowing Scripture By R. C. Sproul Page 56 Interpreting the Minor Prophets By Robert B. Chisholm I read a number of sources regarding the New Testament and the historical Jesus John Dominic Crossan The Birth of Christianity: Discovering What Happened in the Years Immediately After the Execution of Jesus E. P. Sanders Jesus and Judaism Bart Ehrman How jesus became God Forged: Jesus Interrupted Misquoting Jesus Lost Chrsitianities Jesus Apocalyptic prophet of the new millenium Robert Funk Honest to Jesus Marcus Borg (A number of articles) Lee Martin McDonald’s article “The Integrity of the Biblical Canon in Light of Its Historical Development," Bulletin for Biblical Research 6 (1996): 95-132. http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/jesusresearch.shtml http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/ I have also read about recent changes on scholarship on paul http://www.tms.edu/tmsj/tmsj16g.pdf I have also seen christian responses I have visited Gary herbamus’s website Have seen/ read transcripts of debates and discussion between Bart Ehrman and Craig Evans (2 total) Bart Ehrman and James white Bart Ehrman and Mike licona (3 total) Bart Ehrman and William Lane Craig Bart Ehrman and Daniel Wallace Bart Ehrman and Daniel Bock William Lane Craig and Marcus Borg Mike Licona and Richard Carrier Additionally, I have also read up to 200 Chrisitian missionary articles criticizing the Quran. After reading all this material, I compared them to the views of many Islamic scholars. I consulted An introduction to the sciences of the quran By Mufti Taqi Usmani Tafheemul Quran by Abul Ala Maududi Maariful Quran by Mufti Shafi Usmani Dawatul Quran In the shade of the Quran By Syed Qutb The Message of the Quran By Muhhamed Asad English Commentary of the Qur’an by Abdul Majid Daryabadi Tafsir Ibn Kathir Tafsir al Jalalayn Abab al Nuzul—Al Wahidi I have also referenced the works of the following Islamic scholars Abdullah al Faqih Salman Al Audah Onislam.net Yusuf Al Qaradawi Farraz Rabani GF Haddad Abdullah Bin Bayyah Ourdialogue Publications by the Royal Islamic Strategic Studies Centre http://www.rissc.jo/ I read have read from the following scholars to learn about the transmission and acceptance of Islamic traditions in the past 1500 years [b]Jonathan A.C. Brown. (A number of lectures and parts of his book muhammad a very short introduction) F.E. Peters. The Quest for the Historical Muhhamed The Cambridge companion to the Qurʼn http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Arabic_literature#Arabic_poetry Bruce Fudge Quranic_exegesis_in_medieval_Islam_and_modern_orientalism I also studied how Eurpean studies of Islam evolved and changed. Tradition and Innovation: Norm and Deviation in Arabic and Semitic Linguistics edited by Lutz Edzard, Mohammed Nekroumi page 75 Kees Versteegh and his contribution to Arabic studies. Karla Mallette Her brief yet insightful exposition on the Vella caper To see the relationship between science and religion, I have used. The quran, the bible, and science by Dr. Maurice Bucaille. I have also read a critique of the book by Dr. Stefano Bigliardi http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9744.2011.01218.x/abstract Science and religion around the world By John Hedley Brooke, Ronald L. Numbers http://www.columbia.edu/~gas1/project/visions/case1/sci.2.html http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/610583/Nasir-al-Din-al-Tusi I have also read books and seen lectures by Dr. Neil Postman talking about the effect of tradition and technology on human life. Technopoly: The surrender of culture of cultur to technolog How to watch TV news http://www.thirteen.org/openmind/ To understand about the role of Shariah, I studied Transnational and comparative criminology James. W. E. Sheptycki, Ali Wardak Bureau of Justice Statistics http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rpr94.pdf http://www.uib.no/jais/v004ht/04-111-131Serajz1.htm Seyed Hossein Serajzadeh http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/16/magazine/16Shariah-t.html Noah Feldman Shiekh Muhammad Haniff Hassan Unlicensed to Kill Zaid Shakir Jihad is not perpetual warfare Khaled Abou el Fadl Islamic Ethics of life Jonathan E. Brockopp Hamza Yusuf (lecture) Broadening the scope of the pope Sherman Jackson Jihad and the Modern World The Islamic supreme council of America http://islamicsupremecouncil.org/understanding-islam/legal-rulings/5-jihad-a-misunderstood-concept-from-islam.html?start=10 Lastly: I looked at Islamic theological beliefs in Heaven and hell. Yasir Qadhi, Timothy Winter, and Muhhamed Fadl Between Heaven and Hell (edit by Muhhamed Khalik) Hamza Yusuf Who are the disbelievers
Unfortunately, your long list of studies only enforces the idea that there must be something deep inside you which draws you to Islam, or religion in general, for psychological reasons.
I read your post like this: I’ve studied everything related to animals, animal biology, attitudes towards animals, etc. and I have concluded that yes, unicorns exist and that I will defend the belief system that results from their existence.