# Major Accusations **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 17, 2013, 11:36am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007 "2013-08-17T11:36:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hazelnut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/bbce88/32.png) [@hazelnut](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/hazelnut)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 11:36am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/1 "2013-08-17T11:36:51Z")
I’ve recently learned that Lawrence Krauss, Bill Nye, and Ben Radford, Michael Shermer have either been accused of sexual harrasment, or aiding and abetting sexual harrasment. What the hell! Anybody else heard about this? > **[Covering my ass](https://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2013/08/covering-my-ass/)** > > Well, Famous Skeptic is vaguely threatening to sue me. Since Famous Skeptic is rich and I am poor, and since my two sources are too terrified to openly speak out again him (I wonder why), I have re… > **[No, it could never happen to her!](https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/08/06/no-it-could-never-happen-to-her/)** > > This is what always blows my mind: that sexual harassment affects people I’d never imagine having to worry about it. Karen Stollznow is a big name, popular on the skeptic conference circuit, … > **[More Internet Vigilantism as Shermer Accused of Rape](https://www.atheistrev.com/2013/08/more-internet-vigilantism-as-shermer.html)** > > PZ Myers posted an email he allegedly received accusing Michael Shermer of rape. He acknowledges that he has no direct evidence to support this claim. ---
**Author:** ![lois](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5f8ce5/32.png) [@lois](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lois)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/2 "2013-08-17T16:56:39Z")
> I've recently learned that Lawrence Krauss, Bill Nye, and Ben Radford, Michael Shermer have either been accused of sexual harrasment, or aiding and abetting sexual harrasment. What the hell! Anybody else heard about this? http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2013/08/covering-my-ass/ http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/08/06/no-it-could-never-happen-to-her/ http://www.atheistrev.com/2013/08/more-internet-vigilantism-as-shermer.html Hadn't heard, but people who are at the forefront of rational thought are always vulnerable to such accusations. When the opposition (also known as christians) can't think of a good argument, they turn to sex allegations. Lois ---
**Author:** ![occam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@occam](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/occam)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/3 "2013-08-17T17:19:57Z")
I agree with Lois, but I also recall seeing a website a few years ago that listed between thirty and fifty Republican politicians who had been arrested or at least lost their positions for a wide variety of sexual infractions. Unfortunately, testosterone toxicity is almost universal among males, and it becomes more active as the person gets a more powerful position. Occam ---
**Author:** ![rocinante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@rocinante](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/rocinante)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/4 "2013-08-17T19:19:08Z")
Check out Blake Smith’s comments on his Facebook page: > **[Facebook - log in or sign up](https://www.facebook.com/DoctorAtlantis)** > > Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know. ---
**Author:** ![darrons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@darrons](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/darrons)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/5 "2013-08-17T22:00:00Z")
> Hadn't heard, but people who are at the forefront of rational thought are always vulnerable to such accusations. When the opposition (also known as christians) can't think of a good argument, they turn to sex allegations. Lois These aren't Christians making allegations, they are prominent women in the skeptical community. Instead of dismissing the allegations out of hand I suggest you and Occam read the back story about what has been going on and how CFI has blundered once again. Republicans misdeeds are irrelevant to how men in the skeptical community act toward women. That is not only a red herring it is a tu quoque fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![occam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@occam](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/occam)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/6 "2013-08-17T23:04:19Z")
Sorry Darron,I didn’t even recognize that more than one of them was from the skeptical community. I wasn’t arguing against the claims against them. I was trying to point out that it doesn’t matter what the situation is, males seem to be driven by their hormones to a greater extent than females and when in positions of power their behavior in sexual areas becomes more active so they exert more pressure on anyone they see as a potential partner. Occam ---
**Author:** ![darrons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@darrons](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/darrons)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/7 "2013-08-17T23:55:12Z")
It isn’t just Republican males who act like that. Politicians off all stripes, from FDR to Churchill to Bill Clinton have demonstrated a remarkable inability to keep pants up, but recent Republicans have shown an unprecedented disdain for women’s rights. I’m disappointed women get similar treatment from male leaders in the skeptical movement. There is no excuse for such behavior, but there also seems no lack of people willing to stand up for misogynists and excuse their actions. This has to stop. ---
**Author:** ![dougsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/dougsmith/32/61_2.png) [@dougsmith](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/dougsmith)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/8 "2013-08-18T01:14:13Z")
> It isn't just Republican males who act like that. Politicians off all stripes, from FDR to Churchill to Bill Clinton have demonstrated a remarkable inability to keep pants up, but recent Republicans have shown an unprecedented disdain for women's rights. I'm disappointed women get similar treatment from male leaders in the skeptical movement. There is no excuse for such behavior, but there also seems no lack of people willing to stand up for misogynists and excuse their actions. This has to stop. Agreed, Darron. It's a terrible shame. ---
**Author:** ![hazelnut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/bbce88/32.png) [@hazelnut](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/hazelnut)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/9 "2013-08-18T02:40:22Z")
> Check out Blake Smith's comments on his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/DoctorAtlantis Could you give the gist of it to those of us who don't use facebook? What if these women (and Myers) are lying? In Lawrence Krauss's case it appears he defended a person named Jeffrey Epstein from accusations of hiring underage prostitutes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey\_Epstein Bad judgement, perhaps, but not an immediate indication of being a sex offender. Shermer is being accused of rape by PZ Myers, essentially - not much else to go on there. Radford is accused of raping Karen Stollznow on more then one occasion :question: :exclaim: This one is probably going to be deeper. I can't find anything specific about Nye, except that some female skeptics find him sleazy, and include him on the list of offenders. ---
**Author:** ![skuld](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@skuld](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/skuld)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 4:00am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/10 "2013-08-18T04:00:37Z")
> What if these women (and Myers) are lying? what would the women gain by lying? ---
**Author:** ![deadmonky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@deadmonky](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/deadmonky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 4:54am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/11 "2013-08-18T04:54:01Z")
> What would the women gain by lying? [Cynicism Mode=On] Fame, money, knocking someone they dislike down a peg, discrediting a rival, street cred with the homies. Take your pick. ---
**Author:** ![hazelnut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/bbce88/32.png) [@hazelnut](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/hazelnut)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 10:35am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/12 "2013-08-18T10:35:35Z")
^^^^ What Dead Monky said. ---
**Author:** ![darrons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@darrons](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/darrons)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/13 "2013-08-18T12:33:59Z")
> What if these women (and Myers) are lying? In Lawrence Krauss's case it appears he defended a person named Jeffrey Epstein from accusations of hiring underage prostitutes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey\_Epstein Bad judgement, perhaps, but not an immediate indication of being a sex offender. Shermer is being accused of rape by PZ Myers, essentially - not much else to go on there. Radford is accused of raping Karen Stollznow on more then one occasion :question: :exclaim: This one is probably going to be deeper. I can't find anything specific about Nye, except that some female skeptics find him sleazy, and include him on the list of offenders. Please stick to facts. No one is accusing any of these men of rape. They have been accused of sexual harassment. Spreading lies does not help. You need to read what the women posted, not third-hand misinformation. ---
**Author:** ![jeciron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeciron](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/jeciron)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 1:18pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/14 "2013-08-18T13:18:23Z")
I can understand why accusations of sexual impropriety within the skeptic/humanist community should have so much impact. We believe we are people who see the world through a clearer lens, one without the distortions of religion or custom, " that we can live ethical and fulfilling lives on the basis of reason and humanity." ([Humanism » Humanists UK](https://humanism.org.uk/humanism/)), and that view allows us to make more rational choices in our behavior. The fact that reason is not a safeguard against sexual misconduct points to the complicated relationship between out intellectual selves and our more animal nature. Sex is such a huge and complicated part of who we are and I, personally find it alarming to be forced to recognize the possibility that even the most prominent members of our group are susceptible to their instinctive drives and that their highly respected intellects do not prevent these drives from affecting their behavior in what could be a very inappropriate manner. ---
**Author:** ![scottmayers](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/scottmayers/32/18_2.png) [@scottmayers](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/scottmayers)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/15 "2013-08-18T14:50:03Z")
a ---
**Author:** ![jeciron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeciron](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/jeciron)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/16 "2013-08-18T15:59:52Z")
I believe that when people embrace a philosophy such as Christianity, Buddhism, or Humanism and practice it, we are often searching for a discipline which helps us define and live a moral life. Whether any single practice guarantees that its advocates will be more moral can be subject to endless debate, of course. But it is pretty likely that someone who chooses to adhere to a certain ideology or philosophy, and if it is a considered choice, will have reason to feel their chosen discipline provides a superior framework for making and supporting the fundamental decisions of their lives. I’m not going to try to define what morality is, or debate it, but I think that most people who identify as Humanists feel Humanism is a more valid framework than other philosophies they have encountered. As such, behavior among members of the group, particularly influential ones, may be scrutinized to evaluate the effectiveness of the philosophy. When that behavior appears to be inconsistent or inappropriate, the effectiveness of the philosophy may be called into question, and the phenomenon and its relationship to the practice of the philosophy should be examined. I have no way of knowing if there is any substance to the charges which initiated this thread. and I’m not making any judgements, but the issue of inappropriate sexual behavior within the Humanist community has been an issue of late. This particular issue, with it’s ties to instinctive or subconscious behavior touches upon a concern of mine, i.e. are we able to make the intellectual choices we may need to make in order to move beyond the behavior engendered by evolutionary currents which have created us? It seems likely that if we are to continue to exist we will have to learn to do so. ---
**Author:** ![lois](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5f8ce5/32.png) [@lois](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lois)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/17 "2013-08-18T18:44:27Z")
> Hadn't heard, but people who are at the forefront of rational thought are always vulnerable to such accusations. When the opposition (also known as christians) can't think of a good argument, they turn to sex allegations. Lois These aren't Christians making allegations, they are prominent women in the skeptical community. Instead of dismissing the allegations out of hand I suggest you and Occam read the back story about what has been going on and how CFI has blundered once again. Republicans misdeeds are irrelevant to how men in the skeptical community act toward women. That is not only a red herring it is a tu quoque fallacy. I know the story but it seems to be an anomaly. I attended many skeptical, Atheist and Humanist conferences over quite a few years and never heard of this kind of accusation. But anyone can attend any conference so you can't be sure the perpetrator wasn't an interloper and a troublemaker. Lois ---
**Author:** ![lois](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5f8ce5/32.png) [@lois](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lois)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/18 "2013-08-18T18:47:04Z")
> It isn't just Republican males who act like that. Politicians off all stripes, from FDR to Churchill to Bill Clinton have demonstrated a remarkable inability to keep pants up, but recent Republicans have shown an unprecedented disdain for women's rights. I'm disappointed women get similar treatment from male leaders in the skeptical movement. There is no excuse for such behavior, but there also seems no lack of people willing to stand up for misogynists and excuse their actions. This has to stop. I think that was Occam's point. It's certain men who are the problem and they can pop up in any venue, any political or religious or non-religious venue. Lois ---
**Author:** ![occam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@occam](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/occam)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/19 "2013-08-18T19:50:50Z")
Quoting Darron: > There is no excuse for such behavior, but there also seems no lack of people willing to stand up for misogynists and excuse their actions. This has to stop. I know that most males who don’t engage in such behavior say they have self-control, however, it’s much easier for them to have self-control when they aren’t in an extemely powerful position. I seem to recall a S-F story a few years ago where all males were given a shot at about ten years old that completely shut down testosterone production. Only when a woman wanted to have sex and/or get pregnant could she file a document with a govt. doctor who would then give a counteracting shot that would last for one day. Maybe that’s how it will stop. Occam ---
**Author:** ![darrons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@darrons](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/darrons)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007/20 "2013-08-18T20:25:08Z")
> I know that most males who don't engage in such behavior say they have self-control, however, it's much easier for them to have self-control when they aren't in an extemely powerful position. That implies that all men in positions of power will sexually harass women, which is obviously not true. I know men who are not in positions of power who harass women. I also know men in powerful positions who do no harass women. Being in a position of power is no excuse. It may give men more opportunities to harass women, but I doubt it makes individual men more prone to harassing women. [Next page](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/major-accusations/3007.md?page=2)