Let’s talk about Height

Key word is “Had” :wink:

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Sure, …if RAPE is the normal means of procreation!

I’m for the legalized abortion and believe that if rape was the norm, this would not be fought against by half the population of WOMEN. The fault lies with women’s choices ONLY without such absurd degrees of possible degree of Patriarchalism. Note that even ‘patriarchalism’ (or ‘matriarchalism’ as its extreme equivalent) are devised by BOTH men and women.

I only married a tall man because no short guy asked me out nor did I ever meet a short guy. You can only date what is available and if you don’t meet short people or only meet short women, but not short men, then you’re kind of stuck dating and probably eventually marrying, what is available. Maybe short men more of a minority than short women.

Exactly and that short guy could be stuck in the belief that she’s out of his league and doesn’t make a move to make himself noticeable, introduce himself, and ask her out.

That’s way too tall.

There’s no maybe about it. It’s the standard everywhere.

OK then, @thatoneguy… If there are a lot of short women, how did we breed to have more tall men and more short women with less short men and less very tall women? I don’t think it just happened. If I could have had a choice, I would have married a short man long ago, just as my mother did, but there aren’t many short men. Are you saying, short women chose tall men and bred out the short men? If so, how did we end up with so many short women? Is the gene for shortness more favourable towards women? Somehow I don’t see that happening, but my grandfather was almost 6’ and my grandmother was 4’10" before she shrunk. My mother and aunt (all the kids my grandparents had) were 4’10" and 4’11". My mother married a man who was 5’3" 5’4" and had me. I didn’t get any taller than 4’11" of course. Since no short dude came around and asked me out, my sons’ father ended up being almost 6’ tall. I had two boys, both almost 6’ tall. My second husband is almost 6’ tall, as was his father. His mother is no taller than I am and didn’t shrink much from 5’. So how did it happen there are so many tall men outside of Asia? Speaking of which, how is it Asians didn’t breed out as many short men? Diet? Maybe, but that doesn’t explain all the short women. I can’t imagine evolution favouring tall men either. Tallness isn’t a favour though. Taller people are more favourable to heart disease, not that short people don’t have heart disease, it’s just higher in taller people. So, I don’t believe that is the reason either.

Possibly. The same biology that separated us into distinct sexes can affect genes diversely. A good example is the Black Widow spider’s male to female size ratio. It’ not an absolute but the genetics may evolve to favor short women and tall men. I’m surprised that you haven’t met short men. But is it not also possible that the same point you made about short men not coming forward is itself a systematic bias that causes short men to fear the potential issues when they TRY the same way that tall men do? That is, the shorter male CAN receive biases that are more traumatizing enough (systemically) enough to FEAR trying further.

I’m relatively ‘short’ (not as short as you though) and although I was not unliked as I’ve seen others, I have noticed a big difference in comparable options that are available to me compared to even those only an inch or two taller.

Like how I compare the advantages of wealth to poverty, those who are less liked will tend to have FEWER CHANCES at making errors in relationship opportunities without dire consequences. That wealth is something that provides one to MAKE MORE MISTAKES without utter failure is related where the taller male is the more Socially ‘wealthy’. A genetically ‘impoverished’ individual is akin to one who is from the ghetto who gets tainted for being fired from their first job. They cannot RISK the excess energy to keep trying where the relative losses are much greater.

Edit: made an error forgetting to put ‘s’ at the end of “fewer chance(s)” and “error(s)”. Fixed.

You do know the female Black Widow kills her mate after they finish mating, which has nothing to do with genes. It has everything to do with the behaviour of the species. Thus, everything after that does not relate, or is inaccurate. or is totally bogus. Because of that, I’m not even sure what to say about the rest of it.

You asserted without proof that the genetics of height distinctions between the sexes move in the same direction in response to another. If that was the case, men and women would BE the same height on average NOW. That is not the case and why we still get behaviors like ‘agression’ being associated with men but not women, and things like ‘sensitivity’ as being associated with women but not men.

So I’ll turn it back on you given it was you who asserted this. And you keep mentioning how you ‘preferred’ short men but nevertheless chose someone tall regardless. You can’t expect others to interpret your own counterposition in reality of your choice to have married a tall man as irrelevant. You also claimed to hardly see any short men in your environment which is highly unusual and nonrepresentative of what is out there.

Go to your physicians’ office and there will likely be a chart that maps average heights of men and women. I see these all the time. There is a separate average for women than men, most specifically for our Western countries, but NOT for all countries or cultures.

I don’t choose short or tall men. I said I haven’t met a short one, aside from my father. I also don’t assert anything. I was trying to get thatoneguy to clarify his statements then you pop off with “probably”. I’m not the one making assertions. I’ve yet to meet a man who is 5’3" like my father was. I haven’t met a male dwarf either.

But I don’t think you qualify for asserting something contrary to your actual ‘empirical’ SELECTION to be with a tall man and I explained WHY short men will tend to BE more unwilling to come forward given the point about the capacity to fail in ‘impoverished’ social standing. Short males, as most people with any distinguished stereotypical phenotypes experience their effective discrimination long before they are even eligible to date. These significant periods define what society expects of short males. The ones who tend to get noticed tend to require being more agressive or ‘fitting’ to what is stereotyped about short men.

I also strongly correlate the means of those who are socially ‘wealthy’ (in kind to fiscal wealth) to be ABLE to fail more times and get the chance to learn to improve better than those who are socially’impoverished’. This comparative analogy requires recognizing why short males will require giving up trying sooner than others. That is, they are not genetically at fault where they are stereotyped as being ‘angry’. This is one of the major complaints given for those who do not want short men to be matched up with women on dating sites, for instance.

You know what? Right there tells me you don’t know what you are talking about and you’re just talking out of your butt. I just told you, I didn’t choose, because I didn’t get the choice. It never happened. What was I supposed to do? Sit around and never marry because my “dream man” never came around? I’d never have kids then and I’d be an old spinster. Dream men (or women) don’t happen in real life. They don’t exist. So one cannot sit around waiting for their dream to become reality. They’d be wishing their life away and getting nothing out of it. So you have to go with something that is less than your dream. There is no “Will Riker” or “Geordi LaForge” or “Tattoo”. So you have to settle for someone who treats you well and makes your life pleasurable.

How does pointing out that ACTIONS speak louder than your words? You have an unusual ‘preference’ regardless AND unusual environment. I believe your own exceptional environmental experience, if sincere, is non-representative of the normal environment. Or are you assuming that short men are rare everywhere?

Edit: Do you think that short men don’t experience more exclusion by society in contrast to the tall…where they DO exist and are available?

It wasn’t my preference. Not even my dream guy. Short men are rare in the U.S., but not so rare in Asia, but I’m not moving to Asia to have more choices and still not find Mr Right. No one finds their Mr. or Mrs. Right. They just hook up with whoever they can stand to be with and if it turns out they can’t because one is abusive or whatever, they divorce. That’s just the way it is. People stay together because they can stand living together.

They have the same experience as any other human being.

Then this is my concern. You are belittling the significance of the systemic discrimination against short men specifically. And I think you aren’t looking yourself at our environment as a whole in fair light. Female shortness is an advantage by contrast. I know as a short male, my height alone makes me relatively invisible and notice how most women turn their heads to those who are tall. Socially, the capitalist mindset fosters the ‘bigger-is-more-powerful’ model and thus women prefer the larger male who environementally are ‘fit’ for proving their success to get better jobs and fulfill the stereotype of having the groom carry his newlywed wife across the threshold.

Short males gets the same kind of discrimination too of what gets falsely presumed for misogyny when they are female. But when laws are used to help defeat what is falsely presumed to be a bias ABOUT women, such misplaced interpretation further isolates those males given they don’t get the same hand up when it comes to getting the better jobs where things like quotas are concerned. Your belittling of this significance is just another example of why short males are afraid to ask someone like you out let alone assert there is even an issue. Or…maybe I’m just being a ‘pussy’, right?

I hope you don’t obsess over this in everyday life because women find that much more unattractive than being OK with who you are.

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Testosterone makes the male body larger but I found this study in this article.

Estrogen plays a big role in limiting bone growth.

While the anatomy and physiology of human reproduction differ between the sexes, the effects of hormones on skeletal growth do not. Human bone growth depends on estrogen. Greater estrogen produced by ovaries causes bones in female bodies to fuse before males’ resulting in sex differences in adult height and mass. Female pelves expand more than males’ due to estrogen and relaxin produced and employed by the tissues of the pelvic region and potentially also due to greater internal space occupied by female gonads and genitals. Evolutionary explanations for skeletal sex differences (aka sexual dimorphism) that focus too narrowly on big competitive men and broad birthing women must account for the adaptive biology of skeletal growth and its dependence on the developmental physiology of reproduction. In this case, dichotomizing evolution into proximate-ultimate categories may be impeding the progress of human evolutionary science, as well as enabling the popular misunderstanding and abuse of it.

No, I’m not belittling anything. You are twisting words.

The fact is, you don’t know what you are talking about and twisting words, as well as making up crap. This conversation is long since over with because for some reason you think you know what I’m thinking, as well as twisting what I’m saying. Not only that, you for some reason think short men are a dime a dozen in the U.S. So since it’s gone into things that aren’t facts, the conversation is over.

I’m not interested in wasting my time on this topic anyways. But it helps tell me HOW some people think and WHERE they don’t. […like why you never asked or proposed a definition for ‘short’, for instance.]

I didn’t start the thread. It’s up to the one who starts a thread to define the boundaries. I’m not the who needs to propose the definition, but I’d say a man who’s 5’3", like my father was, is short. I mentioned my father’s height before in this thread, so I defined it then and there when I mentioned his height. No one can argue that 5’ 3" is short for a man. I mentioned my father’s height, of 5’ 3", three (3) times to be exact. 5’ 3" should have been a clue to you.

Lets jazz this up a little.
So, you looking for a definition for short? How’s about 3 and half feet?