# Late night thoughts on guns **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics and Social Issues\ **Created:** [October 11, 2022, 3:26pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916 "2022-10-11T15:26:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2022, 3:26pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/1 "2022-10-11T15:26:12Z")
This came to me while falling asleep, so, seeing if can be made into something coherent. I’ve been searching for the end-all argument for reasonable gun legislation. I’ve had a couple people agree that, even in the best situations, a true self-defense use of a gun, you are still attempting to wound or kill someone, and that is something that should not be taken lightly. I can agree with all other reasons to own a gun, but that issue rarely comes up. The new thought was, even though 911 is a poor defense once someone is in your house and pointing a gun at you, and the likelihood that you will able to prepare your weapon and use it properly is low, let’s say you still manage to do that. A person who is confident with their weapon would say that’s why they have it. And there are examples of people accomplishing it. All of that is negated by the simple addition of one more bad guy with a gun. And it doesn’t help to add more guns for the good guys, but there is still the “one more gun than one” possibility. Or, the gun that is bigger than yours possibility. I’ve heard from close combat experts that an assault style rifle is not the best defense, you have to swing it around and be standing back a foot or two. For the attacker, I’d think it would be a great weapon, especially if it was a second person standing outside the window, while one person goes inside. It doesn’t take too much imagination to realize that once the regulations are off, the only solution is a world of gangs and militarized everything, the very things that gun owners say they don’t want. ---
**Author:** ![thatoneguy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/thatoneguy/32/28536_2.png) [@thatoneguy](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/thatoneguy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2022, 2:24am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/2 "2022-10-12T02:24:38Z")
Best thing is to have handguns, rifles and shotguns available. That will cover any number of intruders in the home. The need for self-defense usually occurs on the street though, and handguns are best for that in most cases. ---
**Author:** ![mriana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mriana/32/18174_2.png) [@mriana](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mriana)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2022, 10:42am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/3 "2022-10-12T10:42:38Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > Best thing is to have handguns, rifles and shotguns available. If we had better gun laws, you wouldn’t have the mental need/desire to pack for fear of needing to defend yourself in the streets. The U.K. and Canada have gun control laws and their gun crime rate is lower than the U.S. and yet no one feels the need to pack when they go shopping. ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/4 "2022-10-12T18:36:10Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > That will cover any number of intruders Any number? I never know when you are serious. Do you think you are Neo? ---
**Author:** ![cuthbertj](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/cuthbertj/32/18_2.png) [@cuthbertj](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/cuthbertj)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2022, 10:09pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/5 "2022-10-12T22:09:47Z")
I don’t know. I think the source of the problem is cultural. John Wayne, cowboy heros blasting away, war movies, that sort of thing. Somehow, and I don’t know how, our culture has to change entirely. For example, watch movies from the 50’s. Men forcing themselves on women was portrayed almost as a positive - men being men, women liking it, and that’s in all kinds of movies. But that has gone by the wayside. Similar to using the n word. It’s just not done anymore (in general). Guns, everything about them, needs to go that way. ---
**Author:** ![mrmhead](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mrmhead/32/19_2.png) [@mrmhead](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mrmhead)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 1:12am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/6 "2022-10-13T01:12:27Z")
> [@cuthbertj](#): > > But that has gone by the wayside. Similar to using the n word. It’s just not done anymore (in general). Guns, everything about them, needs to go that way. It has been a little bit. Doctor Who, from what I recall, avoids gun play. Also wasn’t a Charlie’s Angles movie “gun avoidance” … or whatever it may be called? There are probably other examples, but those are two that come to mind. Such as smoking cigarettes in a movie is almost eliminated. ---
**Author:** ![thatoneguy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/thatoneguy/32/28536_2.png) [@thatoneguy](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/thatoneguy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 2:44am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/7 "2022-10-13T02:44:36Z")
> [@mriana](#): > > > [@thatoneguy](#): > > > > Best thing is to have handguns, rifles and shotguns available. > > If we had better gun laws, you wouldn’t have the mental need/desire to pack for fear of needing to defend yourself in the streets. The U.K. and Canada have gun control laws and their gun crime rate is lower than the U.S. and yet no one feels the need to pack when they go shopping. Most criminals get their guns off the street, so it’s not a matter of lax gun laws. [Source and Use of Firearms Involved in Crimes: Survey of Prison Inmates, 2016 (ojp.gov)](https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![thatoneguy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/thatoneguy/32/28536_2.png) [@thatoneguy](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/thatoneguy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 2:52am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/8 "2022-10-13T02:52:56Z")
> [@cuthbertj](#): > > I don’t know. I think the source of the problem is cultural. John Wayne, cowboy heros blasting away, war movies, that sort of thing. Somehow, and I don’t know how, our culture has to change entirely. For example, watch movies from the 50’s. Men forcing themselves on women was portrayed almost as a positive - men being men, women liking it, and that’s in all kinds of movies. But that has gone by the wayside. Similar to using the n word. It’s just not done anymore (in general). Guns, everything about them, needs to go that way. Yeah, those kids today are obsessed with John Wayne. The fact is guns are just cool and fun. Nobody can change that. People who are anti-gun would change their minds if they tried shooting them. ---
**Author:** ![mriana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mriana/32/18174_2.png) [@mriana](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mriana)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 4:14am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/9 "2022-10-13T04:14:31Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > Most criminals get their guns off the street, so it’s not a matter of lax gun laws. We still need gun laws, regardless of people get their guns. Maybe most criminals get their guns off the street, but we still need to make better guns. > [@thatoneguy](#): > > The fact is guns are just cool and fun. No they are not. > [@thatoneguy](#): > > Nobody can change that. IF you believe guns are cool and fun, then I’d say you have a problem. They aren’t toys. > [@thatoneguy](#): > > People who are anti-gun would change their minds if they tried shooting them. I have shot one. I hated it. It was loud, kicked, stunk, and it’s only purpose is to kill. They are bloody disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 12:55pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/10 "2022-10-13T12:55:12Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > Most criminals get their guns off the street Someone has to manufacture them ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 12:59pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/11 "2022-10-13T12:59:18Z")
> [@cuthbertj](#): > > But that has gone by the wayside. The NRA had a complete makeover 1977. It was pro regulation before that. I would be happy to return to the gun culture of the 60s, but the NRA lies and says I want to take that away ---
**Author:** ![cuthbertj](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/cuthbertj/32/18_2.png) [@cuthbertj](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/cuthbertj)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/12 "2022-10-13T22:07:30Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > Yeah, those kids today are obsessed with John Wayne. > > The fact is guns are just cool and fun. Nobody can change that. People who are anti-gun would change their minds if they tried shooting them. You know what I mean, you’re been silly…it’s in the culture. And I own a gun, and it IS fun to shoot, but the culture still has to change so that guns are only viewed as recreational, used only in controlled venues, etc. I believe Japan does something like that, where you’re not allowed to store your gun in your house but at a sanctioned location, etc. Because for them, guns are recreational and so why would you need a gun in your house? ---
**Author:** ![thatoneguy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/thatoneguy/32/28536_2.png) [@thatoneguy](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/thatoneguy)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 2:14am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/13 "2022-10-14T02:14:49Z")
> [@lausten](#): > > > [@thatoneguy](#): > > > > Most criminals get their guns off the street > > Someone has to manufacture them No kidding, but what does that have to do with gun ownership? > [@mriana](#): > > > [@thatoneguy](#): > > > > People who are anti-gun would change their minds if they tried shooting them. > > I have shot one. I hated it. It was loud, kicked, stunk, and it’s only purpose is to kill. They are bloody disgusting. You are an outlier, then. ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 2:32am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/14 "2022-10-14T02:32:28Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > but what does that have to do with gun ownership? Do I really need to spell it out? The Tommy Gun was associated with organized crime and eventually became outlawed, but the manufacturers are too smart to allow that to happen again. Handguns are now made in pink, and marketed to women, by frightening them. Do you believe that gun manufacturers aren’t aware that their guns end up in the hands of criminals? Who do you think is funding the NRA? Who is against something as obvious as requiring some classes before you own a gun? Who is for gun shows where it’s nearly impossible to police who is doing background checks or not? ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 2:36am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/15 "2022-10-14T02:36:57Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > You are an outlier, then. Less than half of households own a firearm [https://www.statista.com/statistics/249740/percentage-of-households-in-the-united-states-owning-a-firearm/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/249740/percentage-of-households-in-the-united-states-owning-a-firearm/) That’s households. Only 1/3 consider themselves gun owners > **[1. The demographics of gun ownership](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/)** > > Understanding gun ownership in America is not as simple as knowing who does and does not own a gun. Some Americans who don’t personally own guns live with ---
**Author:** ![mriana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mriana/32/18174_2.png) [@mriana](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mriana)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 3:35am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/16 "2022-10-14T03:35:27Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > You are an outlier, then. Not really. I know several people who don’t like them and have shot them once. Guns, IMHO, are nothing more than a means to perpetuate cannibalistic barbarism, be it hunting or murder. What would a vegetarian or vegan want with such a barbaric tool that leads to cannibalism of our distant relatives? ---
**Author:** ![thatoneguy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/thatoneguy/32/28536_2.png) [@thatoneguy](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/thatoneguy)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 3:36am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/17 "2022-10-14T03:36:16Z")
> [@lausten](#): > > > [@thatoneguy](#): > > > > You are an outlier, then. > > Less than half of households own a firearm > > [Gun ownership in the U.S. 1972-2023 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/249740/percentage-of-households-in-the-united-states-owning-a-firearm/) > > That’s households. Only 1/3 consider themselves gun owners > [The demographics of gun ownership in the U.S. | Pew Research Center](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/) The issue is about anti-gun people who change their minds after shooting for the first time. > [@lausten](#): > > Do I really need to spell it out? The Tommy Gun was associated with organized crime and eventually became outlawed, but the manufacturers are too smart to allow that to happen again. Handguns are now made in pink, and marketed to women, by frightening them. Do you believe that gun manufacturers aren’t aware that their guns end up in the hands of criminals? Who do you think is funding the NRA? Who is against something as obvious as requiring some classes before you own a gun? Who is for gun shows where it’s nearly impossible to police who is doing background checks or not? You want policies targeting gun manufacturers, then? ---
**Author:** ![mriana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mriana/32/18174_2.png) [@mriana](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mriana)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 3:37am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/18 "2022-10-14T03:37:53Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > You want policies targeting gun manufacturers, then? Now that would help, along with other gun policies. ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 3:38am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/19 "2022-10-14T03:38:38Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > You want policies targeting gun manufacturers, then? No. I want money out of politics and sensible gun laws. Laws that reflect 80% of the people in this country. ---
**Author:** ![mriana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mriana/32/18174_2.png) [@mriana](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mriana)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 3:45am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916/20 "2022-10-14T03:45:16Z")
> [@thatoneguy](#): > > The issue is about anti-gun people who change their minds after shooting for the first time. Did you ever think that the people Lausten is talking about don’t own a gun because they, for whatever reason, don’t like guns either? It really doesn’t matter if they fired on or not. No one should push someone into firing one just to attempt to make them like guns. They probably still won’t like them, unless they are psychic on some level. [Next page](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/late-night-thoughts-on-guns/9916.md?page=2)