# Kuhn and geniuses getting lost within their own mindscape **URL:** \ **Category:** Humanism\ **Created:** [July 15, 2022, 2:03am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/kuhn-and-geniuses-getting-lost-within-their-own-mindscape/9697 "2022-07-15T02:03:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 42
**Author:** ![citizenschallengev4](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/citizenschallengev4/32/28718_2.png) [@citizenschallengev4](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/citizenschallengev4)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2022, 11:53pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/kuhn-and-geniuses-getting-lost-within-their-own-mindscape/9697/42 "2022-07-23T23:53:52Z")
> [@write4u](#): > > > Beyond that all I know is that you seem unable to comprehend the conception of a relationship going between yourself and the knowledge you possess, or between yourself and the environment you are embedded within. > > That makes no sense a all. > a) Your “relationship” with yourself is all there is. > b) “Knowledge” is the sum total of your relationship with your environment. > As Anil Seth posits; Your brain is making a best guess of the data it receives from the senses. a) “Is all there is?” does that mean, you have no inner voices or conflicts going on? Are there are no layers of personality ready to shine, depending on who shows up? Or that you’ve never felt the pull of competing interests when your mind is anticipating some event? Ever stumbled and before you know it, your body catches itself, ever wonder how your body pulled it off? Do people have different levels of understanding and mastery over their bodies? When I look inside myself I see many different levels, mental and physical. Sure, could be dismissed, hormones. Then we could pile on the papers explaining details til our minds are pounded to mush. It’s nice, even important, to know about those hormones and the mechanics (_and for there to be the people who can really master this biology and discover ever more to share with us_), but in the end it’s our individual spirits who need to take a hold of a chaotic scene, and keep on, keeping on with the outside word as it ceaselessly rushes at us. . > [@write4u](#): > > b) “Knowledge” is the sum total of your relationship with your environment. Indeed it is. Maybe this will help. > What’s so special about having [an appreciation](https://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2022/05/missing-key-to-dennett.html) for the “Physical Reality ~ Human Mindscape divide”? > **Well, for one, it leads to an inevitable understanding that our very existence is proof that our Universe and Earth unfolded down one, internally consistent cascade, and only one.** > No matter what we self-absorbed human creatures are capable of imagining. > _I think that reason is big._ > > For me, it also brought into focus that Earth herself is my touchstone with reality. This in turn, led to a deep down realization that Earth’s biological processes created creatures and eventually humans along with our human mind. _(This is undisputed by science and rational humans - correct?)_ > > From there it becomes self-evident that our Gods are created from within our own minds and bodies, driven by biological, evolutionary and cultural experiences, the ebb and flow of life. Each one of our Gods tailored to our own particular personality and circumstance. Ignoring that, leaves us without a benchmark for sorting out our thoughts, as [Donald Hoffman’s “Case Against Reality” flailing](https://confrontingsciencecontrarians.blogspot.com/p/case-for-reality.html) exempl > ifies. > > The notion of Evolution is given much lip service, but it seems to me that it seldom rises above a post card superficiality. > [@write4u](#): > > Can’t you see you are just labeling what you think you see as a peculiar human trait. ahh, yeah, … > [@write4u](#): > > The human brain is an anomaly in that it is not a result of gradually evolving complexity, but of a genetic mutation that gave us the “illusion” that on Earth we can divorce ourselves from the universal laws that govern everything, because we enjoy a special status as being made in the image of God. > [@write4u](#): > > This kind of Abrahamic mindset hubris is the cause for all religious wars. And much worse than that. Our entire outlook on life and business - oh and treating Earth and each other with the same foresight as ants isn’t exactly something to be proud of. > [@write4u](#): > > The brain is in a unique position in that it is not in direct contact with its environment but must rely on secondary information that is shaped by the sensory abilities of the individual. That’s a less than accurate description, and I’ll leave it at that, for now. > [@write4u](#): > > Every individual brain has a unique once removed relationship with its environment and can only make a best guess of what the incoming information represents. See and this wording is what drives me up the wall. It’s so oblivious to Earth’s role, as if it didn’t matter - then you get all upset and explain, oh but I did mention evolution, back their somewhere, of course we all know it’s real. Still there you are writing up descriptions of human behavior, human thinking devoid of any true deep down appreciation for Earth’s part in making who we are. And next thing we know, were told consciousness must be something fundamental to the universe. I mean really, how is that supposed to work? Do people who propose that even know what consciousness is? It’s beyond bizarre. And that’s worth calling out. My task is simple as that. I’m under no pretense of upending science or whatever. Just about exposing a our > [@write4u](#): > > Man’s unique brain has placed him outside the natural deterministic chronology of physics. But that had nothing to do with God. It has to do with man! > [@write4u](#): > > It is one of the few true analogies in the bible. Man’s unique brain has placed him outside the natural deterministic chronology of physics. But that had nothing to do with God. It has to do with man! # Man’s unique brain has placed him _outside the natural deterministic chronology of physics_ Okay have at it. Explain what that means. > [@write4u](#): > > I think you attach a greater mystery to consciousness than it merits. Surely your joking. I’m the one that says consciousness can be understood through biological avenues, with out any need for pixie dust a la Chalmer’s and the contrived story of the “Hard Problem of Consciousness.” I’m the one that is disappoint that our Evolutionary links to consciousness get such short shrift. I’m the one that has a deep appreciation for my body’s Evolutionary roots, I’m pointing out the science of Mark Solms who has the guts and the knowledge and the bona fides to be able to explain with authority that. > **Consciousness is a reflection of the inside of our body/brain as it’s interacting with it’s moment to moment (body & exterior world),** via mechanisms Seth, among others, is studying. And to be clear, I’m not denying the science of Anil Seth, so you can keep him out of this. re40 Oh lordie no time for that onslaught, besides it misses the point. Focus, it’s about a simple Zen thought, if you like, Appreciating the Physical Reality ~ Human Mindscape divide. Save the horrors for a more appropriate place. 😰 Focus, > It took me over sixty years to recognize my _[Physical Reality ~ Human Mindscape divide](https://confrontingsciencecontrarians.blogspot.com/2021/04/physical-reality-human-mindscape-divide.html)_ perspective which in hindsight seems rather self-evident, after all the “mind-body problem” has been the source of endless [philosophical speculation](https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/discovery-mind-body-problem/) for millennia, I’ve thought about it since I was a kid, I thought most kids do. > > I have been fortunate to have one active critic _Write_ over at [CenterForInquiryForum](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/appreciating-the-physical-reality-human-mindscape-divide/9533), but he’s also frustrating in that too often his bias create assumptions and claims that are straw men, perhaps well meaning, but still too often avoiding what I’m actually trying to enunciate. … > [Citizenschallenge: Being an element in Earth’s Pageant of Evolution (3/5)](https://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2022/06/an-element-of-evolution.html) --- _[View the full topic](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/kuhn-and-geniuses-getting-lost-within-their-own-mindscape/9697)._