we had to impose secularism to the catholic church --morganI read a little about that, but your experience is probably more accurate. We, the US, started as a place that was escaping official religions, but also as a place for religions to establish their own place, their own god based Constitutions. I don't think we've sorted that out yet.
I’d be happy if we were at 50% no-religion. We call that group the “nones”, and it’s growing rapidly.
Well this is largely inaccurate.
There are many things we still have no clue about and some we would probably never have.
And secondly, we do know to a high degree that this universe has not always been here. It does have an ultimate origin
It’s fascinating that humans as far back as recorded history have always been obsessed with some form of immortality.
Just something to ponder about, though.
Ok, so this is one of those sayings that are popular on the internet, but are in fact incorrect.
For starters, secularism is not on the rise. That is, if we are defining secularism has having a naturalistic atheistic worldview, as your write-up seems to allude to.
What is on the rise in North America and Western Europe is irreligion. What it means is that there’s an uptick in people identifying themselves as not being affiliated with any organized religious organizations. This can range from people who hold religious beliefs and practices but do not identify with any church or mosque to people who hold some type of spirituality or cosmic energy without any defined concept of God or gods and of course it can include those who are agnostic on the matter.
Irreligious or nones should not be confused with materialistic atheism.
Secondly, if we are to define secularism by its more rigorous secularization theory (basically, the historical process in which religion looses it’s cultural and social significance), this trend, as alluded to above, only holds true in North America and Western Europe. They are the exception, not the rule.
For the rest of world, religiosity is on the rise.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, mainly due to birth and mortality rates, while Christianity is still holding steadly with world population growth. Other world religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, folk religion etc also have upward trend with world population.
Even in countries that have tried to stamp out religion or are fundamentally Atheistic, the steady rise in religiousity or religious affiliation still holds true. For example, China has been undergoing a religious revival in recent years and might hold the world’s largest population of Christians in a few decades to come, by some estimates.
It’s worth pointing out that these data mostly show how people identify but doesn’t signify if this religiosity or irreligiousity is intrinsic.
Finally, the idea that the world is going to be more secular as we better understand how the world works is just wrong. Humans are complex emotional beings and people lose religious affiliation for a vast array of reasons.(ranging from trauma experiences to the rise in individualism and self-autonomy and everything in-between).
In any case that’s a longer conversation on its own.
Yeah, in Islamic countries, if one admits they don’t believe they are killed. Atheism in Islamic countries is punishable by death. However, the truth is more similar to other areas of the world. Even in South America, there is a decline in religious belief. With Islamic countries, people often leave the country or keep their mouth shut.
Nice to see that you are capable of more than just contradicting others, and making claims about Jesus being real. Still, not a lot here. You allude to “array of reasons”, but don’t name them. Anyone who hangs around here for a while has been over these major themes. Maybe pick one of these “reasons” and back it up with some data and draw some conclusions from your experience.
I’m not sure what you mean by there’s not alot here sir. As I’ve pointed out; The central and core premise of the post I replied is in fact incorrect. The world is not becoming less religious but rather it is becoming more religiously diverse.
But if you are more interested in having a conversation on why people walk away from religion or religious affiliation, I’m happy to have a conversation on that.
[quote=“lightking01, post:65, topic:7555”]
The world is not becoming less religious but rather it is becoming more religiously diverse.
And how is that working out?
I have no idea why you think the world will become religiously diverse. Non-religious has been rising rapidly recently. I think the growth in Muslim population will slow because they literally threaten apostates now, that’s not sustainable.
So far, you have not supported your arguments with data or citations, so, not sure how interesting this conversation will be.
Plus, people may currently call themselves Christians, but they wouldn’t pass in a church from just a few decades ago. People may say they are “culturally” a certain religion, but they don’t really practice
As I mentioned in my previous replies, it seems you guys are conflating the rise of the religious unaffiliated or “nones” with a total lack of religion or Atheism.
As I mentioned previously…
Or if you like you can read of the pew report:
However, a new survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life, conducted jointly with the PBS television program Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly, finds that many of the country’s 46 million unaffiliated adults are religious or spiritual in some way. Two-thirds of them say they believe in God (68%). More than half say they often feel a deep connection with nature and the earth (58%), while more than a third classify themselves as “spiritual” but not “religious” (37%), and one-in-five (21%) say they pray every day. In addition, most religiously unaffiliated Americans think that churches and other religious institutions benefit society by strengthening community bonds and aiding the poor.
With few exceptions, though, the unaffiliated say they are not looking for a religion that would be right for them. Overwhelmingly, they think that religious organizations are too concerned with money and power, too focused on rules and too involved in politics.
"Nones" on the Rise in 2012 | Pew Research Center
I think it would be great if you could read through what the data is really stating and what the terms entails. It seems you are filtering it through a particular lens.
Secondly, what I mean by the world is becoming more diverse is that alongside the population growth, religious diversity is also increasing. From Islam to Hinduism to Judaism, to folk religions and so on, the population of adherents of these faith are increasing. Also with the rise of the religiously unaffiliated especially in the west, more people are choosing to define or redefine how they relate to the divine or the metaphysical on a personal level without adhering to the dictates of any organized religion.
A major sentiment amongst the younger population today especially in the west is that Religion can be shown in different ways
There is no right way to practice any religion. This does not mean people are less religious, it just shows that there’s an unprecedented diversity in how people chose to express their connection with the metaphysical.
The keyword word here is “You think”. Its okay to make assumptions (we all do) but that does not necessarily mean our assumptions are true. It is true that some people are still Muslims due to fear for their lives and property but that does not mean the vast majority of Muslims today do not believe that Islam is intrinsically true or that they are coarsed to remain Muslims. It would be hard to make such a case. Also looking at Islam in the west where apostasy laws do not apply or in Asia and the east where there’s a concentration of prosecuted Muslims, it’s a lot easier to make the point that many people chose to stay in Islam because they believe it is intrinsically true for them.
So would a more religiously free world slow down the rate of Islam’s population growth? Probably…
Would it slow it down considerably to make it not the most dominant religion in the world in a few decades? Probably not.
At the moment Islam is projected to grow by about twice the rate of global population growth mainly due to fertility and mortality rates.
If there is to be major shift in this, it would probably come by a plethora of things and not just one thing.
Nothing I’ve said so far is hard to check or even remotely controversial. Most of what I’ve written can be found on the very first page of a quick Google search.
I’m no sure I understand what you mean by " they wouldn’t pass in a church from just a few decades ago" though.
But to the crux of the matter, I did make mention of the limitations of these polls in my first reply
This does affect all sides.
Again almost everything I’ve written above are neither controversial or remotely hard to verify. But I don’t think the major issues are the information themselves but it’s how you’re choosing to parse the information.
And you know the why?
Your to post is too long. I agree with the data. You were talking about Jesus being real. The people in the survey aren’t even asked that.
“Belief in God” could mean a lot of things.
I used to be Christian. I found a very liberal church in a city. Then I moved not too far out in the country and went to a church of the same denomination, but, as I found out, conservative, like churches from 20 years ago. They had even written a letter to my previous church, saying they were sinners, because they accepted gays.
The same denomination. What does “Christian” mean?
I used to be an Xian too- Church of God (Anderson Indiana) as a child, then Lutheran, and finally Episcopalian before I just couldn’t believe. U.S. Anglicans separated from the Episcopalians over gay marriage, gay priests, women priests, etc. Then there was a big land fight, but Episcopalians still accept gays and women (BTW, they also support a woman’s right to choose). Episcopalians are great. lol