Fascism, education and social control

“Its meaning is translated by Brewer in the forms “When I am dead the deluge may come for aught I care”, and “Ruin, if you like, when we are dead and gone.”[4]

That’s a good summary and is key to understanding the backlash against President Carter’s fact based downer, and Ronald Reagans limitless growth magical thinking, which ignored all the damage and destruction our amazing growth and riches required.

Oh, and so you understanding me, the way I see things, we have entered a free fall period. From my perspective, it’s too late for decisive actions to confront the disastrous future we have been creating for ourselves.

That window of opportunity to intelligently confronting the damages our progress was inflicting upon Earth Systems was big in the '60s and '70s, when relatively minor adjustments to our unrealistic expectations, a little better appreciation (which is one step beyond understanding the reasons for something - to absorbing the lesson into the fiber of your being and awareness. ), a little more fear of corporations endlessly merging into too big for their britches destructive behemoths, too big to die monopolies capable of undermining governments.

A little willingness to confront biology’s natural human impulse of always wanting more.

Perhaps it was still manageable, with some will and commitment, into the new millennia. But, rapidly shrinking, the loss (stolen election actually) of Gore, and the rise of the Tea Party MAGA, pretty near hammered the last nails into that coffin. So here we are, our distant future is gone and our near future promises little but increasing hardships at every level.

But the thing is, it’s not going to be like the Hollywood movies that have created our understanding of end of world catastrophes. This is a creeping thing. Today we are in the era of Extreme Climate Roulette and waiting for the next Black Swan events.

Like drops of acid, here and there, then slowly coalescing into pools that overrun all that’s in the way. Meaning humanity still has a long, if difficult future ahead of it. At some point the global networks will unravel but life will continue, after some most unpleasant adjustments, with the survivors becoming isolated within distinct climate niche, where survivability is still possible.

The survivors will do what they always do, bury the dead, clean up, get some sleep, and carry on within their new reality best they can.

This what where my personal efforts are focused on these days. Helping folks get a more realistic, better sense of self and our kinship with Earth.

An awareness that becomes understanding, and then deep down appreciation, that we are filaments in the Pageant of Creation. That today matters, because it is today and that in the end each of us only has our own life to live in the here-and-now and then we die, so we may as well do the best we can with it, even when death is inevitable.
After all, your death was always inevitable anyways.

The biggest challenge will be how to keep living our lives, even as we know our life sustaining Earth, as humanity has always known her, is forever gone. Leaving the isolated survivors within their lucky habitable zones with ever new challenges nearly as radical as landing on an alien planet.

For course, the way we keep pouring on the fuel, Earth may overshoot that and take it back down to life’s most basic survivors. After all ocean acidification can turn even uglier than a warming climate, as Earth’s geologic history documents.

For me, it’s about getting right with our minds. It’s about appreciating how much we are a part of Earth’s systems. Not about saving society. After all, some of us gave it our best shot, but it was never enough. And that’s simply what it is.

Fake science has risen because people no longer trust our politicians media and public institutions

1 Like

I was enjoying that post, up to the part in bold. Then it got dark, not exactly “helping folks get a more realistic sense of kinship with Earth”

Yeah, that’s the tragedy about where we are at.
We can only discuss it in vagaries.
Or we risk the downer that absorbing real data about Earth’s systems inspires.

The entire documentary is excellent, but for our purposed the bottomline, that most everyone seems to put out of mind, is something I’ve been digesting for over a half century, unlike most others I wasn’t able to forget it after leaving high school science classes.

That was because I already had a incipient visceral connection with natural places and Earth’s systems, natural surrounding had a feeling of “Being At Home,” and weather was my friendly adversary - who over this past half century has turned into something else altogether, and the promise of more extremes more certain than the taxes we hate.

I first watched this video when it was fairly new, I hadn’t seen anyone do as good a job at explain this bottomline with wonderful neutral clarity. Some 15 years later and it still hasn’t been topped. Jump to 56:54 for that bottomline.

That was then, this is now,

The annual rate of increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide over the past 60 years is about 100 times faster than previous natural increases, such as those that occurred at the end of the last ice age 11,000-17,000 years ago.

You bet it’s terrifying, horrifying, frighten to the core - but it’s not new news - these are the stakes we have been gambling away with our self-absorbed thinking and self-serving behaviors. It’s not something I bring up with friends and relatives around the Thanksgiving table or any other time, but somewhere we need to be able to be honestly and face what is coming. Isn’t that what academia is supposed to play a part in?

. . .and I’m looking at economists & philosophers - definitely not climatologist and Earth scientists, they kept up their end of the bargain with society.

Even if I totally understand where, the instinctive behavior, that brought us to this point comes from. But without facing our own demons, can’t we hope to grow and cope with life, life on a good planet, let alone life on a horrendously battered biosphere with the climate system being supercharged, like we can’t comprehend.
People don’t appreciate the lag time or the scale of Earth systems (think oceans, cryosphere, atmosphere, etcetera. Like a potter’s flywheel, takes lots of energy to get it going, then once it’s going it’s easy to maintain speed, try stopping it in a hurry.

These are cold facts that should have been calculated into all those lofty academic exercises that always seem to dance around real world matters, and implications, and experiences, too often keeping within the mindscape where the parameters are easy to adjust - and externalities (in way more than the economic respect) never really make the connection with the world out there or the evolution that brought us here.

Sort of like the revulsion you felt after my bolded sentence up there.

It was my generation’s biggest challenge and unfortunately the physical evidence shows that we failed. Besides the biosphere that created and sustains us, the evidence shows that we also blew it with our own family, society, humanity. Oh but do we have unfathomably many toys to show for our efforts, it really is astounding what human ingenuity can do.

Sadly we have no sense of Earth Time (deep time), it unfolds rather slowly, so it’s oh so easy to ignore.
Nor do many have much interest in critical thinking, especially in the face of that sophisticated disinformation campaign and a constant flow of disparagement at science and government and anything that hints at a need for moderation or regulation.

I’m thinking you’re mixed up the order and not looking at causes.

It started with those strategic campaigns of disinformation propaganda coming from corporate giants whose only interest is in the bottomline, and their strategic campaigns of fear mongering and peddling stupefaction. Then allowing those giants to get even bigger and more powerful in the drive for minimizing expenditures and maximizing immediate profits.

Then TAXES became the enemy and most everyone climbed on board that train - at least when it came to public messaging. And our brainiacs didn’t bother to point out to people that taxes are also the price we pay for civilization. Why not pay closer attention to spending, but don’t hate the spending, at least not if you want all the benefits. Instead a Free Loader mentality got glorified, and they bitch about hippies. :wink:

Nah, it was easier to make the government responsible for the bad players we elected.
We were no longer interested in knowing about the necessity of governance; and rules; and laws; and taxes.

Remember DOUBT IS OUR PRODUCT! It’s not like the plan hasn’t been known for a long time. And it worked like a charm. Now it’s coming time to pay the piper.

(Research Gate PDF)

How is it that you think most others have forgotten about this? I have seen nothing but increasing awareness of AGW all my life. I took a class on the physics of energy production in my Freshman year, so I feel I was a little ahead of the game, but many others have far surpassed me. Sure, it’s too little and maybe too late, but it’s not forgotten.

What I’m saying is, a tremendous amount of effort has gone into getting the information out there, and some of that is with added dire warnings of the end of civilization. But change is not happening at the pace it needs to. So, maybe take a look at the messenger

Do you look at the medias role in all this ? Govt ? What climate change activism do you support? Are there some that you disagree with?

We started having a constructive public dialogue in the 50s, then into the 60s, but it was eaten away with time. Now media has a huge roll in promulgating the lies and crazy-making.

Yes, government has a big role. In American We The People also have a big role, none bigger than being informed and engaged. I could go on buy my dog calls again.

Oh lordie, public education.

An essay concerning our weather
Nov/Dec 1995 - The Humanist magazine

Katrina and Rita in context
Nov/Dec 1205 - The Humanist magazine

Concerning Our Failure to Appreciate the Weather
Nov/Dec 1215 - The Humanist magazine

They are kind of the same, evolved at decadal intervals.

In truth I don’t keep up on the personalities anymore, but I used to. And if the right story gets dumped in my lap, I’m known to reengage.
Hope is a survival strategy in hopeless times.

I really believed intelligent people were capable of curbing their appetites and rational learn from the facts at hand. Now it’s too depressing to get into the weeds anymore. Nothing like watching the horror scenarios of my youth developing before my eyes over the course of the past century.

Now I’m more concerned with conveying a more enlightening understanding of ourselves, body, the introspective consciousness we humans have achieved.

Our relationship with our thoughts.

And on and on . . .

Thanks for asking.

Have you written about this ? Exposed the lies and contradictions?

“Yes, government has a big role”

Have you written about this - how govt is the problem on taking real action on climate change?

“Oh lordie, public education.”

Thats it?? No support for direct action in a UN declared climate emergency?

“In truth I don’t keep up on the personalities anymore,”

You reduce activism to personalities?

Not sure what that means. Please clarify.

Government isn’t the problem, we are.

I get that a lot with zedenko

1 Like

You wrote you dont keep up with personalities., whatever that supposed to mean. There are no climate action groups around the world that gets your support or promotion? Really quiet on this one .

Then you go in about govt playing a big role? Whats the role ? Has it been fulfilled in your opinion? Will ask how and why

"Oh lordie, public education.”

Thats it?? No support for direct action in a UN declared climate emergency?"

Completely ignored

Well if you were asking for solutions, that’s where it would start.
How to accomplish that is another matter.

No. But, it’s tough, big business back stabbing and lying propaganda & brainwashing campaigns.
Government failure is mostly because it wasn’t the will of the brainwashed consumption focused people - instead of following through, every rational action got attacked and then distorted and twisted and highjacked by profiteers - rather than rational constructive action with the greater good in mind, that learned from failure but kept their eye on the prize.

It was campaigns of stupefaction

1 Like

A good technique on forums, when you don’t know what someone means, ask

There isnt a grassroots campaign you can quote that has your support and promotion and isnt a govt policy that you can highlight as a failure in addressing AGW. Rather its all about look at me.

Am supposed to feel guilty?

Yeah guess it is all about me and my perspective, that I’m working on and trying to convey to others as clearly as possible. That’s because I think it touches on something I don’t think near enough people are thinking about, let alone taking seriously.

Doing the best I can with what I have,
and if that does meet your standard, so sorry.

Life is a nonstop act of triage there is only so much a person can do.

Do you? A charlatan maybe?

Why would you call me a charlatan?

I’ve honesty answered your questions.
I’ve never tried to pass myself off as a professor or authority.
I’ve been ready to discuss items

And I dang well have been keeping up on the science as well as any layperson for over a half century, meaning I’m also witness to the changing situation
.
If you looked at my posts, you’ll see I back up my descriptions and opinions with reference to the work of real scientists.

Who are you, the Ministry for the Purity of Participants?
.
.
*

1 Like

Please. I asked you what action undertaken by Climate change activists do you not support ? Are there any grassroots climate action groups you do support?

Rule 3f is the one that gets everybody. It seems so easy to understand, and so easy to break. It’s not the specific words. “Charlatan” sounds so erudite, right? It’s an attack on the person instead of the point, personality over evidence. As the rule-givers have passed down from forum versions past, so it is, and so shall it be written:

Generally speaking, inflammatory, hyperbolic or overly emotive rhetoric is the sign of a troll and should be avoided on the CFI Forum. This community exists, first and foremost, to foster inquiry. Inquiry does not flourish in an atmosphere of heated rhetoric, mutual vilification or recrimination. Disagreements should be kept, as much as possible, to the issues at hand and not become overly personalized. To take but one example, pointing out a person’s lack of scientific qualifications when discussing scientific issues is on-point, but referring to someone’s political beliefs is not. Since they risk degenerating into flame wars, abusive forum threads or posts are subject to immediate editing or deletion.

Warnings are not in the rules, but mercy is the way of the mods, and they are just. We know not who authored the rules or how it is that they are so wise, we only follow that which appears so pure. “Foster inquiry”, “flourish”, “scientific evidence”, if this were a believer forum, I would bend my knee and bow to those words. Ignore them at your peril. Those who do, shall not pass.

What is most sad, those who break this rule are often ideologically on the same wavelength as those who do not. Their belief in a clean environment and peaceful governments are high ideals that CFI and members here support.

That’s a goofy question. I support whatever climate change activists manage to pull off.

If you are genuinely curious, you should reread comment #20 in this thread. There I try to explain my trajectory, and the fact that though I might support whatever action a climate change activists group can pull off, I also feel it’s unless, futile - at least, until we are willing to start thinking about doing with less; along with gaining a totally different attitude and understanding towards this planet Earth. Neither of which seem to have a snowball’s chance in heck of being achieved.

SkepticalScience.com was the one I could relate to and for a few years was working with them, but I wasn’t academic enough for that crowd and we lost interest in each other, or at least I decided to walk away and focus on my project since I wasn’t getting any worthwhile feedback. I do wish them well and check in once in a while.

Tried Citizens’ Climate Lobby, but they are so white bread, I could scream, so saw no point in pursuing anything with them.

What have you done?