# Electric vehicles - an opportunity?
**URL:** https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887
**Category:** Science and Technology
**Created:** [September 21, 2022, 9:27am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887 "2022-09-21T09:27:54Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@ibelieveinlogic](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/ibelieveinlogic)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2022, 12:53pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/41 "2022-11-25T12:53:47Z")
> [@lausten](#):
>
> Capitalism could exist without property ownership.
The application of resources (capital) to achieve a goal (profit) requires that some entity must chose the resources and the application. Authority to select (take possession of) resources is demonstrated by the act of selection. Possession of a resource establishes ownership. The application of resources establishes authority over (ownership of) the space where the application is performed.
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### Author:  [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2022, 1:09pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/42 "2022-11-25T13:09:31Z")
> [@lausten](#):
>
> You are lost if you forget that the fruits of the earth belong to all and the earth to no one!” – Rosseau
Ah, but some of us are more entitled to the fruits of the earth, because we can take it at will. “Finders keepers Losers weepers” (Plautus).
Earth be damned .
How does that sound? That is how it is!
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### Author:  [@ibelieveinlogic](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/ibelieveinlogic)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2022, 1:19pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/43 "2022-11-25T13:19:59Z")
> [@lausten](#):
>
> Inheritance can happen with no input at all, you’re getting the results of someone else’s work.
So, the determination of whether it is “right” for a child of any age to receive his or her sustenance from a parent depends on whether or not the parent is alive? Careful now, the answer should be applied also to a spouse or a parent of the individual. And, of course, that determination should be applied to anyone receiving anything based on the work of others. Many today seem to feel that they are “entitled” to quite a lot which has resulted from the work of others.
One might use the answer to argue that unless an individual has risked his or her life to establish and protect a society from those who would destroy it he or she should not be allowed to enjoy the benefits of that society.
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### Author:  [@ibelieveinlogic](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/ibelieveinlogic)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/44 "2022-11-25T13:29:47Z")
> [@lausten](#):
>
> the fruits of the earth belong to all and the earth to no one!
So, Rosseau expresses an opinion as if he had the authority to determine right and wrong. He presented quite an ego and a total lack of understanding human nature.
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### Author:  [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2022, 1:30pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/45 "2022-11-25T13:30:02Z")
> [@ibelieveinlogic](#):
>
> The application of resources (capital) to achieve a goal (profit) requires that some entity must chose the resources and the application. Authority to select (take possession of) resources is demonstrated by the act of selection. Possession of a resource establishes ownership. The application of resources establishes authority over (ownership of) the space where the application is performed.
What makes you think you have authority to ownership of anything except of life’s basic needs?
Every time you take more than you consume, you are breaking a natural laws of thermodynamics.
You want to see the result of your application of resources ?
ENVIRONMENT
4,676,342 Forest loss this year (hectares)
6,295,621 Land lost to soil erosion this year (ha)
32,785,952,106 CO2 emissions this year (tons)
10,790,468 Desertification this year (hectares)
8,805,362 Toxic chemicals released in the environment this year (tons)
FOOD
865,466,112 Undernourished people in the world
1,736,241,075 Overweight people in the world
822,905,914 Obese people in the world
6,898 People who died of hunger today
$ 142,585,953 Money spent for obesity related diseases in the USA today
$ 42,642,236 Money spent on weight loss programs in the USA today
WATER
4,075,413,863 Water used this year (million L)
757,176 Deaths caused by water related diseases this year
777,330,341 People with no access to a safe drinking water source
ENERGY
105,282,748 Energy used today (MWh), of which:
89,622,620- from non-renewable sources (MWh)
15,854,664- from renewable sources (MWh)
659,706,931,353 Solar energy striking Earth today (MWh)
**21,593,468 Oil pumped today (barrels)**
**1,420,172,447,790 Oil left (barrels)**
**14,810 Days to the end of oil (~41 years)**
1,078,361,606,877 Natural Gas left (boe)
56,756 Days to the end of natural gas
4,289,788,635,958 Coal left (boe)
147,924 Days to the end of coal
more…[https://www.worldometers.info/](https://www.worldometers.info/)
Read them and weep. In 200 years we have almost undone what took 4 billion years to evolve into a balanced “cinderella climate”.
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### Author:  [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2022, 2:02pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/46 "2022-11-25T14:02:57Z")
> [@ibelieveinlogic](#):
>
> a total lack of understanding human nature.
Entire cultures of humans live as if the earth did not belong to them.
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### Author:  [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2022, 2:28pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/47 "2022-11-25T14:28:22Z")
> [@ibelieveinlogic](#):
>
> Possession of a resource establishes ownership.
This is where you slip into “might makes right”.
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### Author:  [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2022, 7:32pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/48 "2022-11-26T19:32:43Z")
> **[She’s Inheriting Millions. She Wants Her Wealth Taxed Away.](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/21/world/europe/marlene-engelhorn-wealth-tax.html?unlocked_article_code=4NAt2_EbGlcpVLrdDosIm176dJqiyQ_2R5AfZtYDJVhMYDCYYI3vN4mU13KFvQ1tEcb74rHxBFqyOuHGOppmQqT4I5e4jsk71D78QDUv5ZPEfocChVe26qg8njsYtgpRBC5v4kWDjFxv_IXhjEq3ZTRPPOup74mPHYV3ybbsfoaGdJA9rtGqCXfvVFi3t3JicVAZpOYs2wupfg3EhR4UYtGR3rXSj65ClHIau-I_be7O5twQGMTVjoLyXjgjwHfpQ3JEsYgPEeILRB-jixD4LAiPnDp6AjiRNmAHMqs5UdWyzNOCxO88L-PlKLMXHcenUVWZqERQsyrBjo-KQI77EC7w_AK5ZlaNZ6k0wA&smid=share-url)**
>
> Marlene Engelhorn, 30, heir to a fortune, isn’t interested in philanthropy, believing it only perpetuates existing power dynamics. She’s calling for structural change to how the ultrarich are taxed.
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### Author:  [@ibelieveinlogic](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/ibelieveinlogic)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2022, 6:21pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/49 "2022-11-27T18:21:05Z")
> [@write4u](#):
>
> What makes you think you have authority to ownership of anything except of life’s basic needs?
What makes you think you have the authority to tell me I don’t?
My answer to your question was and is in the four sentences of my post. (# 41)
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### Author:  [@ibelieveinlogic](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/ibelieveinlogic)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2022, 6:25pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/50 "2022-11-27T18:25:35Z")
> [@lausten](#):
>
> Entire cultures of humans live as if the earth did not belong to them.
I have never heard of one that did not claim their tribe had territory and resources that belonged to them.
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### Author:  [@ibelieveinlogic](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/ibelieveinlogic)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/51 "2022-11-27T18:31:54Z")
> [@lausten](#):
>
> This is where you slip into “might makes right”.
Absolutely. Those applying the “might” always justify that action because they see the sought after result as “right”. Those resisting the “might” of others with their own might also justify their actions to achieve their desired result as “right”. Freedom fighter vs terrorist: point of view.
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### Author:  [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/52 "2022-11-27T18:40:49Z")
[quote=“ibelieveinlogic, post:41, topic:9887”]
Authority to select (take possession of) resources is demonstrated by the act of selection.
Ever heard of “natural selection”?
It is Earth that has ownership of all “natural resources”!
> Possession of a resource establishes ownership. The application of resources establishes authority over (ownership of) the space where the application is performed.
No it does not, only earth has ownership of everything on it and in it.
That is why earth is a biome known as “Gaia”.
Everything in or on the earth has opportunity to “interact” with earth’s resources, but these resources are not unlimited and that’s why our interaction with sequestered CO2 (oil) will end in the next ~40 years and the earth’s biome will reclaimed it’s CO2, and global warming may signal the end of human domination over the earth’s resources if not extinction.
# **Anthropocene** #
The **Anthropocene** ([/ˈænθrəpəˌsiːn, ænˈθrɒpə-/](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English) [_AN-thrə-pə-seen, an-THROP-ə-_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Pronunciation_respelling_key))[[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocene#cite_note-1)[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocene#cite_note-2)[[3]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocene#cite_note-3)[_[failed verification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability)_] is a proposed [geological epoch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoch_(geology)) dating from the commencement of significant [human](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human) impact on Earth’s geology and [ecosystems](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecosystem), including, but not limited to, [anthropogenic climate change](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropogenic_climate_change).[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocene#cite_note-AP-20141014-SB-4)[[5]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocene#cite_note-Science2016-5)[[6]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocene#cite_note-Edwards-6)[[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocene#cite_note-a_primer_for_geographers-7)[[8]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocene#cite_note-8)
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### Author:  [@ibelieveinlogic](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/ibelieveinlogic)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/53 "2022-11-27T18:50:29Z")
> [@write4u](#):
>
> natural laws of thermodynamics
There’s nothing new
There’s no free lunch
You never break even
All activity, including human activity, produces losses.
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### Author:  [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/54 "2022-11-27T18:55:47Z")
> [@ibelieveinlogic](#):
>
> There’s nothing new
> There’s no free lunch
> You never break even
>
> All activity, including human activity, produces losses.
So then who has ultimate ownership?
I’ll let Carlin illustrate once again;
(warning crude language)
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c)
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### Author:  [@ibelieveinlogic](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/ibelieveinlogic)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/55 "2022-11-27T19:00:48Z")
> [@write4u](#):
>
> global warming may signal the end of human domination
It very well could. I wouldn’t bet against it. Population numbers are always dependent on resources. All populations eventually reach a subsistence level.
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### Author:  [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/56 "2022-11-27T19:10:19Z")
> [@ibelieveinlogic](#):
>
> It very well could. I wouldn’t bet against it. Population numbers are always dependent on resources. All populations eventually reach a subsistence level.
Except the insects. They were here first and they will be the last to remain. And that is because they don’t claim ownership.
There are 2 species on the increase, man and the insect. Man because he can change his environment, and the insect because it can adapt to all changes man or the earth’s ecosystem causes.
They admit their dependence on nature and adapt to everything nature can invent, short of total planetary destruction.
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVZpzLUoGU0)
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### Author:  [@ibelieveinlogic](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/ibelieveinlogic)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/57 "2022-11-27T19:16:11Z")
> [@write4u](#):
>
> let Carlin illustrate
Yeah, he’s funny. Whenever I think about a likely path forward for humanity I think about the movie “Blade Runner”. Possibly do-able in the lifetime of some of the children with us today. Shall we have soylent green for supper?
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### Author:  [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2022, 8:12pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/58 "2022-11-27T20:12:02Z")
> [@ibelieveinlogic](#):
>
> Shall we have soylent green for supper?
We already do. It’s called SPAM (Special Processed American Meat) and is delicious!..
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### Author:  [@russianguy0](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/russianguy0)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/59 "2022-11-27T21:35:03Z")
> [@ibelieveinlogic](#):
>
> Those who adopt communism or communism-lite, aka socialism, cannot accept that individuals can inherit property because private ownership of property is not allowed.
Private property in terms of the means of production distribution and exchange. Factories, energy and transport for example should be held in common by the workers. Your cartoon take on this would lead one to believe socialists are after your toothbrush!!
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### Author:  [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2022, 12:00am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/electric-vehicles-an-opportunity/9887/60 "2022-11-28T00:00:37Z")
> [@russianguy0](#):
>
> Private property in terms of the means of production distribution and exchange. Factories, energy and transport for example should be held in common by the workers. Your cartoon take on this would lead one to believe socialists are after your toothbrush!!
Socialism has nothing to do with Capitalism or any kind of Authoritarianism.
It has to do with controlling unlimited greed and the establishment of a exclusive ruling class that maintains power by wealth or force.
IMO the most desirable form of government is based on socio-economic principles that benefit all and requires a fair contribution by all members of that “society” according to ability to pay.
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