# Edward Snowden **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 28, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190 "2016-09-28T21:18:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mikeyohe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mikeyohe/32/28536_2.png) [@mikeyohe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mikeyohe)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190/1 "2016-09-28T21:18:34Z")
Protecting state power. [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/centerforinquiry/original/2X/2/23b479e880ef167e7830701d7ce8e11da4c8931e.jpeg "Intelligence Agencies Are Gathering Information Against You in Case of Your Dissent") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcFmxrqBjb4) Just as J. Edgar Hoover was the most powerful man in Washington by controlling files on congressmen. He was made a national hero. Lying to Congress is a crime. James Clapper lied to congress and is above being prosecuted because he controls data on every person in the country. The same with John Koskinen and the IRS. We now have secret laws - [United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Court#Secret_law) And to enforce these secret laws we have secret courts. My understanding is, that all this was put together and approved by the U.S. Supreme Courts. It is against the Fourth Amendment, therefore, do to that fact, it was only too be used for foreign intelligence. Then it moved from foreign intelligence to any terrorist. The public has been lied to about the extent of the intelligent gathering. People like Snowden and John Kiriakou working for the PRISM system have become concerned enough to become whistle-blowers. Only to be prosecuted. I am for Obama pardoning Edward Snowden. Is anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![loisl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/loisl/32/18_2.png) [@loisl](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/loisl)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190/2 "2016-09-29T00:49:40Z")
> Protecting state power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcFmxrqBjb4 Just as J. Edgar Hoover was the most powerful man in Washington by controlling files on congressmen. He was made a national hero. Lying to Congress is a crime. James Clapper lied to congress and is above being prosecuted because he controls data on every person in the country. The same with John Koskinen and the IRS. We now have secret laws - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_Foreign\_Intelligence\_Surveillance\_Court#Secret\_law And to enforce these secret laws we have secret courts. My understanding is, that all this was put together and approved by the U.S. Supreme Courts. It is against the Fourth Amendment, therefore, do to that fact, it was only too be used for foreign intelligence. Then it moved from foreign intelligence to any terrorist. The public has been lied to about the extent of the intelligent gathering. People like Snowden and John Kiriakou working for the PRISM system have become concerned enough to become whistle-blowers. Only to be prosecuted. I am for Obama pardoning Edward Snowden. Is anyone else? Yes, I am. Doubt he'll do it, however. ---
**Author:** ![stardustypsyche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@stardustypsyche](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/stardustypsyche)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190/3 "2016-10-09T03:33:39Z")
> I am for Obama pardoning Edward Snowden. Is anyone else? I am for prosecution of those who steal and transfer classified secret information for the capital crime of treason. Once the sentence is carried out the pardon will become a moot point. ---
**Author:** ![yosemitesam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7feea3/32.png) [@yosemitesam](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/yosemitesam)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190/4 "2016-10-09T18:59:16Z")
> Gary Johnson and I. I get it :lol: :lol: :lol: I had been holding off forming any opinion on Edward Snowden. (it helps that I'm only superficially familiar with the details) Still, the past few weeks have seriously undermined what 'moral' authority he seemed to be clinging to. Guess he's shot his load and is now desperately trying to cling to relevance by squeezing whatever he can out of the dregs. It's not a pretty picture. ---
**Author:** ![yosemitesam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7feea3/32.png) [@yosemitesam](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/yosemitesam)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190/5 "2016-10-09T19:03:39Z")
> I am for prosecution of those who steal and transfer classified secret information for the capital crime of treason. We don't do that anymore. Otherwise John Anthony Walker Jr and pals would have been hung from a flag pole outside the Pentagon, it would have been richly deserved. If you forgot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John\_Anthony\_Walker ---
**Author:** ![loisl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/loisl/32/18_2.png) [@loisl](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/loisl)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190/6 "2016-10-11T01:30:38Z")
> Protecting state power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcFmxrqBjb4 Just as J. Edgar Hoover was the most powerful man in Washington by controlling files on congressmen. He was made a national hero. Lying to Congress is a crime. James Clapper lied to congress and is above being prosecuted because he controls data on every person in the country. The same with John Koskinen and the IRS. We now have secret laws - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_Foreign\_Intelligence\_Surveillance\_Court#Secret\_law And to enforce these secret laws we have secret courts. My understanding is, that all this was put together and approved by the U.S. Supreme Courts. It is against the Fourth Amendment, therefore, do to that fact, it was only too be used for foreign intelligence. Then it moved from foreign intelligence to any terrorist. The public has been lied to about the extent of the intelligent gathering. People like Snowden and John Kiriakou working for the PRISM system have become concerned enough to become whistle-blowers. Only to be prosecuted. I am for Obama pardoning Edward Snowden. Is anyone else? Yes. i am. He was right. Citizens have an obligation to call out the government and governmemt figures. when it or they are breaking the law. Yet he was excoriated and exiled for fulfilling his obligation as an American. Lois ---
**Author:** ![loisl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/loisl/32/18_2.png) [@loisl](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/loisl)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190/7 "2016-10-11T01:38:26Z")
> > I am for Obama pardoning Edward Snowden. Is anyone else? > > I am for prosecution of those who steal and transfer classified secret information for the capital crime of treason. Once the sentence is carried out the pardon will become a moot point. But you're not against governmemt officials who break the law and lie about it? And Snowdon didn't "steal" anything. He had legal access to the records. His "crime" was publicizing wrongdoing--which he was obligated to do. Apparently you don't mind when the government breaks the law and lies about it and you are against anyone revealing it. It should all be kept a secret? No one should ever call out governmemt abuse when it's found? Is that your position? You would have made a good Nazi. ---
**Author:** ![stardustypsyche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@stardustypsyche](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/stardustypsyche)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 12:00pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190/8 "2016-10-12T12:00:14Z")
> But you’re not against governmemt officials who break the law and lie about it? That is a separate crime I am also opposed to. > Snowdon didn’t “sreal" anything. He had legal access ro the records Copying information classified secret from its controlled storage to an uncontrolled storage for the purpose of later unofficial use is theft of that information. > "His “crime" was publicizing wrongdoing—which he was obligated to do" After stealing classified secret information Snowden gave that information to the enemies of the USA, thus aiding them. His mechanism was to transfer this classified secret information such that it would be published in public sources our enemies read. We have prosecutors and judges with security clearances. If Snowden wished to allege wrongdoing based on secret information he was obligated to use methods established to do so that do not disclose that information to our enemies. > It should all be kept a secret? As opposed to direct public disclosure? Yes. > No one should ever call out governmemt abuse when it’s found? Is that your position? No > You would have made a good Nazi. Ah, the Nazi card...a clear indication of an absence of sound argument. ---
**Author:** ![mikeyohe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mikeyohe/32/28536_2.png) [@mikeyohe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mikeyohe)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190/9 "2016-10-23T16:21:01Z")
> > I am for Obama pardoning Edward Snowden. Is anyone else? > > I am for prosecution of those who steal and transfer classified secret information for the capital crime of treason. Once the sentence is carried out the pardon will become a moot point. Can I assume that your point voiced another way could be. Secret information and treason are more important to you than the Constitution of the United States. The idea that the judicial power of the United States shall be vested in only one Supreme Court. You get my point, how can you appeal or even know of actions taken by the secret courts? There are over 7,000 appeals to the Supreme Courts every year. Where does “ **We the people** of the United States" fit into the secret courts? For me, we should go ahead and publish all the secret information if it means we can keep the Constitution. If being for the Constitution, I have to wear the title of trader and treason. Then I would be proud to wear the titles and save the Constitution. What Snowden did was not for personal gain or greed. It was for the soul of his country, the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![loisl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/loisl/32/18_2.png) [@loisl](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/loisl)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190/10 "2016-10-24T01:57:29Z")
> > I am for Obama pardoning Edward Snowden. Is anyone else? > > I am for prosecution of those who steal and transfer classified secret information for the capital crime of treason. Once the sentence is carried out the pardon will become a moot point. As I said, you would have made a good Nazi. ---
**Author:** ![loisl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/loisl/32/18_2.png) [@loisl](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/loisl)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190/11 "2016-10-24T02:08:46Z")
> > But you’re not against governmemt officials who break the law and lie about it? > > That is a separate crime I am also opposed to. > > > Snowdon didn’t “sreal" anything. He had legal access ro the records > > Copying information classified secret from its controlled storage to an uncontrolled storage for the purpose of later unofficial use is theft of that information. > > > "His “crime" was publicizing wrongdoing—which he was obligated to do" > > After stealing classified secret information Snowden gave that information to the enemies of the USA, thus aiding them. His mechanism was to transfer this classified secret information such that it would be published in public sources our enemies read. We have prosecutors and judges with security clearances. If Snowden wished to allege wrongdoing based on secret information he was obligated to use methods established to do so that do not disclose that information to our enemies. > > > It should all be kept a secret? > > As opposed to direct public disclosure? Yes. > > > No one should ever call out governmemt abuse when it’s found? Is that your position? > > No > > > You would have made a good Nazi. > > Ah, the Nazi card...a clear indication of an absence of sound argument. Or it makes you uncomfortable. If you lived on Nazi Gemany would you have said,"copying information classified secret from its controlled storage to an uncontrolled storage for the purpose of later unofficial use is theft of that information"? It would have been impossibe for Snowdon to avoid "disclosing information to our enemies." Do you really think the officials in charge of invading the privacy of Americans would have said, "Oh, son of a gun, you caught us. But don't tell anyone. We'll stop doing it now if you promise not to tell anyone." How was the US damaged by this information getting out to "our enemies"? If a government agency breaks its own rules and spies on its own people, it deserves to be exposed, even if it might give information to "our enemies" in the process. If experience is anything to go by, "our enemies" knew exactly what was going on before Snowdon said a word. Lois ---
**Author:** ![mikeyohe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mikeyohe/32/28536_2.png) [@mikeyohe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mikeyohe)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190/12 "2016-10-24T21:44:57Z")
Viewing data……… **To Pardon or Not to Pardon: The New Snowden Debate** > **[To Pardon or Not to Pardon: The New Snowden Debate](https://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2016/10/24/to-pardon-or-not-to-pardon-the-new-snowden-debate/)** > > Proposals to pardon Edward Snowden before the end of the Obama administration have revived the debate over his actions and their consequences. For pardon. Three civil-rights organizations, the _American Civil Liberties Union_, _Amnesty International_, and _Human Rights Watch_, have organized a campaign to press President Obama to pardon him before he leaves office. Against pardon. The _House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (HPSCI)_ has recommended unanimously against a pardon. **Why President Obama should pardon Edward Snowden** > **[Op-Ed: Why President Obama should pardon Edward Snowden](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-romero-snowden-pardon-20160919-snap-story.html)** > > Cases like Edward Snowden’s are precisely the reason the president’s constitutional pardon power exists. **Pardon Edward Snowden** > **[Opinion | Pardon Edward Snowden (Published 2016)](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/opinion/pardon-edward-snowden.html?_r=0)** > > The whistle-blower opened America’s eyes and changed our conversation. President Obama should allow him to come home safely. **Debate: Should Obama Pardon NSA Whistleblower Edward Snowden?** > **[Debate: Should Obama Pardon NSA Whistleblower Edward Snowden?](https://www.democracynow.org/2016/9/15/debate_should_obama_pardon_nsa_whistleblower)** > > It has been three years since National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden released classified NSA files to media outlets that exposed global mass surveillance operations by the U.S. and British governments. If he returned to the United... **Opinion: Tech industry should lead Snowden pardon charge** > **[Opinion: Tech industry should lead Snowden pardon charge](https://phys.org/news/2016-09-opinion-tech-industry-snowden-pardon.html)** > > There's a debate raging right now over whether President Barack Obama, before he leaves office, should grant Edward Snowden a pardon. ---
**Author:** ![beltane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@beltane](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/beltane)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190/13 "2016-10-25T02:35:52Z")
> Protecting state power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcFmxrqBjb4 Just as J. Edgar Hoover was the most powerful man in Washington by controlling files on congressmen. He was made a national hero. Lying to Congress is a crime. James Clapper lied to congress and is above being prosecuted because he controls data on every person in the country. The same with John Koskinen and the IRS. We now have secret laws - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_Foreign\_Intelligence\_Surveillance\_Court#Secret\_law And to enforce these secret laws we have secret courts. My understanding is, that all this was put together and approved by the U.S. Supreme Courts. It is against the Fourth Amendment, therefore, do to that fact, it was only too be used for foreign intelligence. Then it moved from foreign intelligence to any terrorist. The public has been lied to about the extent of the intelligent gathering. People like Snowden and John Kiriakou working for the PRISM system have become concerned enough to become whistle-blowers. Only to be prosecuted. I am for Obama pardoning Edward Snowden. Is anyone else? I'm for Snowden being pardoned, but it's not going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![loisl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/loisl/32/18_2.png) [@loisl](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/loisl)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 5:29am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190/14 "2016-10-25T05:29:37Z")
> Protecting state power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcFmxrqBjb4 Just as J. Edgar Hoover was the most powerful man in Washington by controlling files on congressmen. He was made a national hero. Lying to Congress is a crime. James Clapper lied to congress and is above being prosecuted because he controls data on every person in the country. The same with John Koskinen and the IRS. We now have secret laws - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_Foreign\_Intelligence\_Surveillance\_Court#Secret\_law And to enforce these secret laws we have secret courts. My understanding is, that all this was put together and approved by the U.S. Supreme Courts. It is against the Fourth Amendment, therefore, do to that fact, it was only too be used for foreign intelligence. Then it moved from foreign intelligence to any terrorist. The public has been lied to about the extent of the intelligent gathering. People like Snowden and John Kiriakou working for the PRISM system have become concerned enough to become whistle-blowers. Only to be prosecuted. I am for Obama pardoning Edward Snowden. Is anyone else? I'm for Snowden being pardoned, but it's not going to happen. Because it would be too much like saying Snowdon was right and the ones who drove him into exile are wrong. They would also be admitting that the American government is underhanded, breaks rules and lies about it and it would be admitting that Americans have an obligation to call out governmemt wrongdoing when they see it. They can't allow that, can they? The American government never does anything wrong--it says so, right here. ---
**Author:** ![rutner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rutner](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/rutner)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/edward-snowden/5190/15 "2017-04-09T21:46:52Z")
Snowden is a guy with a massive backbone and to me, a hero. How many people would risk there life, to expose evil, instead of feasting on it? Not many.