# Does a particle start its path physical before it reaches what caused decoherene **URL:** \ **Category:** Science and Technology\ **Created:** [April 3, 2020, 12:29pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198 "2020-04-03T12:29:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pittsburghjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pittsburghjoe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/pittsburghjoe)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 12:29pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/1 "2020-04-03T12:29:16Z")
Does a physical particle start its flight path decohered/physical before reaching the event in the path that causes/triggers decoherence? Do we have verifiable evidence that it starts out physical besides math? Don’t get be wrong, I want it to be physical because it would mean future decoherence events are known to the quantum field. ---
**Author:** ![pittsburghjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pittsburghjoe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/pittsburghjoe)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 1:49pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/2 "2020-04-03T13:49:45Z")
According to the math it does, but no one is getting how profound this is. Apparently, the quantum field knows of future decoherence events. Or coherent waves don’t have a future time limit on becoming physical. Coherent waves are everywhere, including the future. ---
**Author:** ![pittsburghjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pittsburghjoe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/pittsburghjoe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 12:31am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/3 "2020-04-07T00:31:05Z")
Could a matter wave that is going to decohere start its journey as a wave packet and then become physical at the actual decoherence event? ---
**Author:** ![pittsburghjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pittsburghjoe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/pittsburghjoe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 10:29am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/4 "2020-04-07T10:29:18Z")
A wave packet is as physical as light can become. A matter wave is forced to use spacetime when a decoherent event is imminent. Wave packets use spacetime so there is a chance the particle is not truly physical until the decoherence event. The particle had to be a wave packet first because wave collapse wasn’t an option yet. Do I dare say the decoherence event is wave collapse? Because the collapsed wave is allowed to continue past the event, it was allowed to dictate what the particle was in flight (decoherent). ---
**Author:** ![citizenschallengev3](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/citizenschallengev3/32/17_2.png) [@citizenschallengev3](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/citizenschallengev3)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 11:01am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/5 "2020-04-07T11:01:46Z")
Dear Lausten, CFI Mod, I’m starting to think we are dealing with a genuinely deranged person here. Is there anything in the forum guidelines about this sort of vacuous PACKING? I mean I can see it already - Pjoe getting ready to add his grand publication record at CFI on to his CV of accomplishments.   Discussion Forum - doesn’t that imply an expectation of some sort of back and forth interaction? > Doesn't presenting grand ideas, carry with it some intellectual moral obligation to offer construction response to questions and challenges? Or is this simply part of our continued devolution into total an incoherent societal chaos? … and just is it like with COVID-19, that we are supposed to ‘just get over it’ ? ---
**Author:** ![pittsburghjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pittsburghjoe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/pittsburghjoe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 11:03am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/6 "2020-04-07T11:03:35Z")
lol ---
**Author:** ![citizenschallengev3](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/citizenschallengev3/32/17_2.png) [@citizenschallengev3](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/citizenschallengev3)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 11:07am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/7 "2020-04-07T11:07:07Z")
poser ---
**Author:** ![pittsburghjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pittsburghjoe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/pittsburghjoe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 11:08am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/8 "2020-04-07T11:08:25Z")
Ask me something worth answering ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/9 "2020-04-07T13:28:52Z")
> I’m starting to think we are dealing with a genuinely deranged person here. --CC There's no rule against you thinking that, as long as you don't start harassing him or threatening him. I'm just going to pretend I'm not seeing the lol and poser volley. The massive postings are kind of strange. He said he is using this forum as a way to timestamp his ideas, something about how that will make them “his”. That is definitely NOT what we are here for. If more people were wanting to use the Science and Technology area for its intended purpose, to discuss published papers and real data or even just a formula that someone could check, then I’d be more worried. Maybe that should worry me though, since it could be discouraging people from starting something, knowing they would be over shadowed by Joe’s posts. Persistent posting without serious engagement is definitely a violation. Since he was keeping to his little corner and not seeking out people randomly, I’ve just stopped reading him. But your concerns are valid. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. ---
**Author:** ![pittsburghjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pittsburghjoe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/pittsburghjoe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 1:37pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/10 "2020-04-07T13:37:14Z")
You guys wouldn’t know a good thing if it kissed you on the cheek. ---
**Author:** ![pittsburghjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pittsburghjoe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/pittsburghjoe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 2:20pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/11 "2020-04-07T14:20:26Z")
Can wave collapse be the decoherence event that swaps a matter wave packet to physical particles? Is it still considered decoherence if the event caused the particle to dead stop? So measurement does cause wave collapse, but the collapse goes from decohered wave packets to physical particles. Coherent quantum waves (plane waves) are not involved. ---
**Author:** ![pittsburghjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pittsburghjoe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/pittsburghjoe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 2:32pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/12 "2020-04-07T14:32:22Z")
A wave collapse that doesn’t allow the particle to continue moving past the decoherence event will not be decohered wave packets in flight. ---
**Author:** ![pittsburghjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pittsburghjoe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/pittsburghjoe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/13 "2020-04-07T14:52:57Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 3:11pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/14 "2020-04-07T15:11:31Z")
> You guys wouldn’t know a good thing if it kissed you on the cheek. There is a rule about messing with the mods. It's kind of like "reasonable suspicion" or "resisting arrest", completely up to the mod to determine it. So, I really don't like using it. But I've been known to make exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![pittsburghjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pittsburghjoe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/pittsburghjoe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/15 "2020-04-07T16:23:10Z")
Is dark matter, wave packets that do not have the ability to collapse? ---
**Author:** ![pittsburghjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pittsburghjoe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/pittsburghjoe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 7:32pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/16 "2020-04-07T19:32:46Z")
What would make a wave unable to collapse? Is a higgs boson a requirement for wave collapse? ---
**Author:** ![pittsburghjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pittsburghjoe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/pittsburghjoe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 10:26pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/17 "2020-04-07T22:26:12Z")
Is decoherence the conversion of coherent/plane waves to wave packets? Is wave collapse the conversion of wave packets to physical particles? ---
**Author:** ![pittsburghjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pittsburghjoe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/pittsburghjoe)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/18 "2020-04-08T20:23:35Z")
Could dark matter live somewhere that doesn’t have spacetime? ---
**Author:** ![citizenschallengev3](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/citizenschallengev3/32/17_2.png) [@citizenschallengev3](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/citizenschallengev3)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/19 "2020-04-09T00:05:40Z")
And how the fuck is any non expert physicist supposed to be able to comment on that with any intelligence?   But you won’t take the time to explain this drum beat of self-certain profundities that no one else knows about. Why don’t you have the cojones to take it to real experts???   I’m glad we make you feel like the smartest guy in the world - sort of like that brainless imbecile you folks gave our government to.   It’s people like you that brought American the COVID-19, which apparently is running wild through America like no where else in the world. Hmmm? A country full of bricked-off-brains in ciphers like this dude - who displays absolutely no capacity, or interest in, rational thought; self-skepticism, constructive learning.       ---
**Author:** ![pittsburghjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pittsburghjoe](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/pittsburghjoe)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 9:21am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/does-a-particle-start-its-path-physical-before-it-reaches-what-caused-decoherene/7198/20 "2020-04-09T09:21:33Z")
LOL, I think you forgot to take your meds.