It’s a straightforward conservative formula: the right blames state and municipal budget problems exclusively on public employees’ retirement benefits, often underfunding those public pensions for years. The money raided from those pension funds is then used to enact expensive tax cuts and corporate welfare programs. After years of robbing those pension funds to pay for such giveaways, a crisis inevitably hits, and workers’ pension benefits are blamed — and then slashed. Meanwhile, the massive tax cuts and corporate subsidies are preserved, because we are led to believe they had nothing to do with the crisis.
It’s a straightforward conservative formula: the right blames state and municipal budget problems exclusively on public employees’ retirement benefits, often underfunding those public pensions for years. The money raided from those pension funds is then used to enact expensive tax cuts and corporate welfare programs. After years of robbing those pension funds to pay for such giveaways, a crisis inevitably hits, and workers’ pension benefits are blamed — and then slashed. Meanwhile, the massive tax cuts and corporate subsidies are preserved, because we are led to believe they had nothing to do with the crisis.
Yes and even more we are told that those corporate welfare breaks are what is essential for our economic benefit!
It's a racket! An old one indeed. That mechanic is the root of most of our problems. It's always going to be extant, but it has gone waaay out of control.
I’m concerned that if things keep going the way they are, a lot of cities might end up this way. Not all, but quite a few. Hopefully we can change things before then. The truth is, tax breaks for corporations and alike will not help. They are not the job creators. Public demand is.
I'm concerned that if things keep going the way they are, a lot of cities might end up this way. Not all, but quite a few. Hopefully we can change things before then. The truth is, tax breaks for corporations and alike will not help. They are not the job creators. Public demand is.
Yes, it's likely that Baltimore and Camden, New Jersey will go that way.
Detroit lost all of it's manufacturing jobs to outsourcing. So other places got their jobs. Overseas and down South.
So Other places benefited at Detroit's expense. It started in the 80s. I'm sure you're aware of that.
No, it hasn't. Much, yes. Not all.
And, no, Detroit is not in the dumps because of capitalism either (from other posters). There are way too many people who are way too eager to throw their favorite cliches at the city, and way too few people who post on the internet who admit that they don't know much of the story.
Like me.
What I do know:
Detroit has lost a LOT of population.
Detroit's city government has been deadlocked for a while. They can't reliably agree on what services to cut because of the decreased revenue due to population loss.
. . . and there you have it. People can speculate on the reasons behind the population loss, but in a nutshell it's the same problem that every governmental body in the world has, no matter the type, when they see a prolonged, severe decrease in revenue.
. . . and there you have it. People can speculate on the reasons behind the population loss, but in a nutshell it’s the same problem that every governmental body in the world has, no matter the type, when they see a prolonged, severe decrease in revenue.
There's really no speculation to it Andrew. Saunders lays it all out in my former post. Detroit's economic problems stem from a set of unique circumstances that caused it's eventual decline from poor city planning to relying on a single industry, to racial inequality after an influx of African-Americans from the great migration. Racial tension exploded there after World War I and set the stage for what was to come in the 60's. So a decrease in revenue is a result of several causes that hit Detroit like hammer blows. I have no doubt that it will recover in time but the city council needs to tackle those problems unique to Detroit first like poor lay out, better mass transit, safer streets, more service industries, and enticing businesses to relocate as is Texas at the moment. If it works for them it will work for Detroit, the home of Motown music. At least that's something Detroiters can be proud of.
Cap't Jack
High inflation might be Detroit savor. Paying debt with inflated dollars is much easier.
I hear we can expect extra high inflation to hit us at anytime now.
They may have divergent aims but they have similar results. If you go far enough to the left you find yourself rubbing shoulders with the far right extremists.
Yes, in that respect we're in agreement. Radicals and reactionaries do share similar views and the methods are the same, but their core philosophies are very dissimilar. Totalitarianism takes many forms whether it be a political party or an oligarchy; both aim for power consolidation. I wonder which form Detroit's interim mayor will take?
Cap't Jack
He isn't likely to be communistic, but his hands will be tied, no matter what his economic philosophy is.
Lois
He isn’t likely to be communistic, but his hands will be tied, no matter what his economic philosophy is.
I imagine that depends on the Governor who BTW advocates a "right to work" philosophy for Michigan. Snyder's going to use Detroit as his cause célèbre to push through his conservative agenda and woe be to the unions there.
Cap't Jack
I find it so curious that Capitalist sycophants have extolled Adam Smith for years about his enlightened self interest philosophy but do not advocate mandatory accounting in the schools so EVERYONE can do a better job of managing their self interest.
Cheap computers everywhere and economists have said nothing about the depreciation of millions of cars for decades.
psik
Oh yes, Detroit, the consequences of white flight.
It wasn't only whites who fled Detroit. It was the failure of the American auto industry that caused the drop in population and everything followed from that.
It’s important to note that bankruptcy is being filed in the Detroit City limits. The incorporation of Detroit itself.
This doesn’t include the surrounding suburbs and towns which would be referred to as Metro Detroit.
Like every major city in the US practically, “White Flight” did occur in Detroit. It all started in the late 50s or so.
Whites who had gained autos, more discretionary cash, and a desire to move out of crowded cities for example moved out to the burbs.
These would be the mainly white folk who reaped the benefits of a Post-WWII economic boom.
At the same time the centralization of the auto industry in Detroit also moved out. Moved out far and wide.
So less affluent people were left in a city that had less and less jobs.
Today almost nobody lives in Detroit(for purposes of this discussion). Those that do certainly aren’t any real tax base.
White Flight alone doesn’t explain the decline. Job flight is also to blame.
The old way of having block upon block of streets with tightly crammed houses in the city limits only works when there are nearby factories to supply the
inhabitants with jobs. Today many of these type neighborhoods are now ghettos across the US.
That’s what you’re left with…a Detroit.
The people that moved into these houses that other people left slowly found that jobs just kept dwindling and dwindling.
In this instance, I mean blacks moving into the old white housing stock. It should have been a good progression, but by the time that was taking place
at a good pace(the 60s and 70s) the jobs were already steeply declining. So poor people without jobs makes for a bad tax base.
This is Detroit, Cincinnati, Toledo, Buffalo, Milwaukee, etc etc…
This is to say nothing of the existing city infrastructure(housing, sewers, bridges, electric, water etc) that was built between 1870 and 1930 or so.
Another massive burden on an incorporated city that is seeing it’s tax revenues decline.
Each of these places had their own adjustments and histories. They each attempted to adjust to the changing economy with varied results.
But they all have the same old “inner city” neighborhoods with the old crumbling white housing stock that is now “ghetto-ized”.
It’s really just a result of factories dispersing to other places: Away from concentrated “industrial towns”, moving to more “labor friendly” areas, moving to other countries, or just closing down due to obsolescence.
This whole social engineering thing is a result of obsolescence.
Detroit is obsolete. Some cities have better luck in adjusting to obsolescence better than others.
Oh yes, Detroit, the consequences of white flight.
It wasn't only whites who fled Detroit. It was the failure of the American auto industry that caused the drop in population and everything followed from that.
No, the population loss was happening before the auto industry tanked. Sure, the declining auto industry didn't help when it happened, but that wasn't the only factor. As has been said already here, there was basically a confluence of tough events for the city.
Oh yes, Detroit, the consequences of white flight.
It wasn't only whites who fled Detroit. It was the failure of the American auto industry that caused the drop in population and everything followed from that.
No, the population loss was happening before the auto industry tanked. Sure, the declining auto industry didn't help when it happened, but that wasn't the only factor. As has been said already here, there was basically a confluence of tough events for the city.
That's true. But the American auto industry made Detroit, it was its life's blood. As it died, Detroit began to die. There is always a "confluence of tough events," but in this case we know what set them off. (We know what knocked down the first domino.) Do you think Detroit would be dying today if the auto industry had stayed viable there?
Lois
Oh yes, Detroit, the consequences of white flight.
It wasn't only whites who fled Detroit. It was the failure of the American auto industry that caused the drop in population and everything followed from that.
No, the population loss was happening before the auto industry tanked. Sure, the declining auto industry didn't help when it happened, but that wasn't the only factor. As has been said already here, there was basically a confluence of tough events for the city.
That's true. But the American auto industry made Detroit, it was its life's blood. As it died, Detroit began to die. There is always a "confluence of tough events," but in this case we know what set them off. (We know what knocked down the first domino.) Do you think Detroit would be dying today if the auto industry had stayed viable there?
Lois
Yes.
No, the population loss was happening before the auto industry tanked. Sure, the declining auto industry didn't help when it happened, but that wasn't the only factor. As has been said already here, there was basically a confluence of tough events for the city.
The population started declining in the late 50s. The auto industry started declining at the same time.(not declining...just spreading out away from Detroit. the decline starts big time in the 80s.)
Much of that had to be relocating auto workers to newly opened plants like in Ohio, New Jersey, California to name some.
No, the population loss was happening before the auto industry tanked. Sure, the declining auto industry didn't help when it happened, but that wasn't the only factor. As has been said already here, there was basically a confluence of tough events for the city.
The population started declining in the late 50s. The auto industry started declining at the same time.(not declining...just spreading out away from Detroit. the decline starts big time in the 80s.)
Much of that had to be relocating auto workers to newly opened plants like in Ohio, New Jersey, California to name some.
But the question was would Detroit have died if the auto industry had remained viable and IN Detroit. We know what actually happened. The industry not only began dying, it was also moving out of Detroit, causing Detroit's decline on two fronts. The question was would what have happened to Detroit if the auto industry had stayed viable and stayed in Detroit?
Lois