# Describing a sustainable civilization **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics and Social Issues\ **Created:** [December 28, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757 "2021-12-28T15:10:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kentgoodwin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/kentgoodwin/32/18_2.png) [@kentgoodwin](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/kentgoodwin)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/1 "2021-12-28T15:10:34Z")
Humanity faces some complex challenges, largely of our own making. The next few decades will be difficult to navigate, but we feel that process will become easier, if we spend some time now to describe the kind of civilization that we need to create to be sustainable in the long run. The Aspen Group, a small think-tank in rural British Columbia, Canada has just published a very succinct description of that civilization and we have created a webpage to host it. I will post the link here and hope that it is not automatically rejected as spam. [www.aspenproposal.org](http://www.aspenproposal.org) Please have a look and consider joining the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![mrmhead](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mrmhead/32/19_2.png) [@mrmhead](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mrmhead)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/2 "2021-12-28T16:40:18Z")
That has some parallels to the [Georgia Guidestones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones) > 1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature. > 2. Guide reproduction wisely—improving fitness and diversity. > 3. Unite humanity with a living new language. > 4. Rule passion—faith—tradition—and all things with tempered reason. > 5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts. > 6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court. > 7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials. > 8. Balance personal rights with social duties. > 9. Prize truth—beauty—love—seeking harmony with the infinite. > 10. Be not a cancer on the Earth—Leave room for nature—Leave room for nature. ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/centerforinquiry/original/2X/8/8bde270301ef72654c9d5294a3a485e3ddc61147.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![kentgoodwin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/kentgoodwin/32/18_2.png) [@kentgoodwin](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/kentgoodwin)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 7:48pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/3 "2021-12-28T19:48:54Z")
There are a few similarities, but some significant differences as well. ---
**Author:** ![mrmhead](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mrmhead/32/19_2.png) [@mrmhead](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mrmhead)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/4 "2021-12-28T20:51:50Z")
I do like this bit in the FAQ: > Q: I don’t believe in utopia > > A: Neither do we. This Proposal is about survival, not utopia. ---
**Author:** ![kentgoodwin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/kentgoodwin/32/18_2.png) [@kentgoodwin](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/kentgoodwin)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 9:26pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/5 "2021-12-28T21:26:37Z")
Yes, given how much trouble these big brains of ours cause, it is unlikely that we could ever design a stable, utopia. Civilization will always be a bit messy. But it would be nice to see civilization continue for a few more millennia so we can answer a few more questions about the nature of the universe. The Aspen Proposal is all about getting to a (relatively) stable plateau that allows us to do that. ---
**Author:** ![mriana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mriana/32/18174_2.png) [@mriana](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mriana)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/6 "2021-12-28T23:00:49Z")
We’ve already reached 500,000,000 and then some. How are we going to maintain such a number if we’re over that now? ---
**Author:** ![kentgoodwin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/kentgoodwin/32/18_2.png) [@kentgoodwin](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/kentgoodwin)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 12:52am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/7 "2021-12-29T00:52:51Z")
The current world population is just over 7.7 billion. The rate of growth is slowing and in about half the countries on the planet the fertility rate is already below replacement value. As we explain in the notes and FAQ’s on our website, it will only take a little nudging to end population growth and begin the long period of easing that will see us arrive at our target of 1 billion. How quickly we can bring the population down will depend on many factors, not the least of which is a widespread agreement that doing so is a good and necessary thing. We created the Aspen Proposal to help build that agreement. Please share the link to our proposal to anyone you think might be interested. ---
**Author:** ![triplex69](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/triplex69/32/18_2.png) [@triplex69](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/triplex69)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 1:13am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/8 "2021-12-29T01:13:05Z")
> [@kentgoodwin](#): > > it will only take a little nudging to end population growth and begin the long period of easing What do you mean by this and will you be starting at home? ---
**Author:** ![mriana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mriana/32/18174_2.png) [@mriana](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mriana)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 1:14am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/9 "2021-12-29T01:14:23Z")
So you’re saying people would have to have 0 children? We have to have some or the human species will die out completely. We can’t all not have any children. However, if people had only one or two, instead of 6 or a dozen kids, this could still be achieved. Of course, I can’t have any more kids and I only had two. My mother had just me. So having only one or two children is doable. I get tired of seeing people have a half dozen kids or more. That’s what’s bad. ---
**Author:** ![kentgoodwin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/kentgoodwin/32/18_2.png) [@kentgoodwin](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/kentgoodwin)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 1:31am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/10 "2021-12-29T01:31:18Z")
Hi triplex69. Have you had a chance to look at our website? [www.aspenproposal.org](http://www.aspenproposal.org) It is quite brief but does answer that question. My child bearing years are behind me (I have two children) but the country I live in has a fertility rate well below the replacement value, so here (and in many places) we are heading in the right direction. ---
**Author:** ![triplex69](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/triplex69/32/18_2.png) [@triplex69](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/triplex69)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 1:32am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/11 "2021-12-29T01:32:45Z")
Hi Ken . Are you a capitalist? ---
**Author:** ![kentgoodwin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/kentgoodwin/32/18_2.png) [@kentgoodwin](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/kentgoodwin)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 1:33am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/12 "2021-12-29T01:33:21Z")
Hi Mriana, No we are not saying people need to have 0 children. Have a look at our website and our Proposal . The notes and FAQ should clarify things. ---
**Author:** ![kentgoodwin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/kentgoodwin/32/18_2.png) [@kentgoodwin](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/kentgoodwin)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 1:34am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/13 "2021-12-29T01:34:28Z")
Hi triplex69, I am a retired cabinetmaker. ---
**Author:** ![citizenschallengev4](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/citizenschallengev4/32/28718_2.png) [@citizenschallengev4](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/citizenschallengev4)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 1:45am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/14 "2021-12-29T01:45:13Z")
Kent, your link didn’t open for me. Then I tried going through google search and all I found was tons of wedding locations. > [@mriana](#): > > We’ve already reached 500,000,000 and then some. > [@kentgoodwin](#): > > The current world population is just over 7.7 billion. Allow me to put that in context: 7,700,000,000 \_\_500,000,000 5/77 = 6.5% ---
**Author:** ![triplex69](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/triplex69/32/18_2.png) [@triplex69](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/triplex69)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 1:48am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/15 "2021-12-29T01:48:29Z")
Ken - are you for capitalism? ---
**Author:** ![mriana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mriana/32/18174_2.png) [@mriana](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mriana)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 1:48am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/16 "2021-12-29T01:48:55Z")
It won’t open for me either and redirects me to a search engine list. I think it’s because it’s not secure. It’s http and not https My protection software won’t allow unsecure sites. Wait. I tried again with the second link and it opened a secure link to the site. ---
**Author:** ![kentgoodwin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/kentgoodwin/32/18_2.png) [@kentgoodwin](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/kentgoodwin)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 2:06am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/17 "2021-12-29T02:06:25Z")
Hi citizenshcallengev4, that is weird about the link not working. It does work for some folks and it could be a software issue where some browsers won’t visit http sites but only https sites. We will try to change that on our end. The website is so new, it will take a while before it starts showing up in Google. You might try pasting the address into your address bar and seeing if that works. ---
**Author:** ![kentgoodwin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/kentgoodwin/32/18_2.png) [@kentgoodwin](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/kentgoodwin)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 2:09am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/18 "2021-12-29T02:09:26Z")
Hi mriana, Yes there was a typo in the first link which I have now fixed. Thanks for mentioning that. ---
**Author:** ![mrmhead](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mrmhead/32/19_2.png) [@mrmhead](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mrmhead)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 2:24am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/19 "2021-12-29T02:24:13Z")
> [@kentgoodwin](#): > > The website is so new, it will take a while before it starts showing up in Google. Yes - being the paranoid type I am, I searched Google for the site and name rather than click the link - I had to get pretty specific to find your site. There are a lot of other “Aspen” things out there. ---
**Author:** ![citizenschallengev4](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/citizenschallengev4/32/28718_2.png) [@citizenschallengev4](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/citizenschallengev4)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 2:26am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757/20 "2021-12-29T02:26:11Z")
> [@kentgoodwin](#): > > Yes there was a typo in the first link which I have now fixed. Yup it opened now. But, I’m out of time for this tonight, will try to look at it sometime tomorrow. [Next page](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/describing-a-sustainable-civilization/8757.md?page=2)