Debunking Astrology

Pseudoscience and the Paranormal
21

"I tried my hand at Tarot readings for awhile. Never for money. I was never able to come up with readings that were clearly and explicitly accurate, tho sometimes they seemed vaguely accurate. I eventually lost interest. "

Me too. Also numerology and palmistry. Also read up on spiritual healing, an area with some real rock spiders preying on the desperate…

With fortune telling generally, I soon learned that the last thing people want is to be told their future. What they want to know is about all the great things which are going to happen to them. ‘True believer’ fortune tellers of all kinds know this, and have a code of ethics about what they will tell people. In my experience, committed fortune tellers of all kinds tend to be harmless little old ladies of both sexes who belong to the Theosophical society. These old dears don’t usually charge, or only charge a token amount.

After reading about any one or all fortune telling methods one soon discovers a complete absence of the specific. The language used is similar to that of the alleged medium and his cold readings.

Around 35 years ago, I read what claimed to be a serious study of astrology. The book was called “Astrologers And Their Creed” (Christopher McIntosh 1969)

An interesting book, while he writes about the history of astrology

Then, he tried to prove the accuracy of astrology. He did a a large statistical study. A population of 10,000. He looked at one thing only; occupation, comparing it with occupation as outlined in a persons sun sign taken from the time of birth. (Leo, Libra Virgo, etc etc)

The results of years of work showed an astrological accuracy of’ slightly better than chance’ . I don’t know if he included a standard deviation, his claim sounded as if he had not. He used that conclusion to claim "there’s was something in astrology’ .A modest claim, but important if true.I think it’s called ‘the thin edge of the wedge’.

My position was, and is; if astrology is a real predictive method, it should be correct in almost every case, not ‘sometimes’. Even if real, it’s of limited value if not consistently, specifically, accurate .

Perhaps Lois or Lausten might explain to me how knowing the future would effect free will, or indeed if it does. Free will is a hard nut for me. IF fortunetelling is true/reliable, does that not abrogate free will? If that is not the case, why not? I’m not being at all snippy, I really want to know and understand.

 

22

As we have discussed in other threads, predicting the future even with scientific methods is “iffy” at best. But, of course, any info can potentially have an impact on what one does, whether it were an accurate prediction of the future or just a fictional prediction.

There are self-fulfilling prophecies, in which the mere belief that something is going to happen, leads to actions that make something occurring to be more likely and even inevitable.

And our will is determined, anyway, by whatever the factors are, be they predictions included or just all of the other factors that go in to determining what we will do.

23

As we have discussed in other threads, predicting the future even with scientific methods .

Indeed.

Astrology is truly a pseudo-science. Developed ca 3000 bce, originally by who knows, the Babylonians are often cited.But every ancient civilisation had some system of divination using the planets. Originally, the skies were studied as a predictive method of the life of the ruler, and by extension, the state. The Science of astronomy did not get under way until the eighteenth century EG Queen Elizabeth 1 had her own private astrologer, the magician/alchemist/scientist John Dee. (died 1609)

It is my understanding that astrology is still taught as a recognised degree in India.

In charting a natal horoscope, chart, the astrologer refers to an ephemeride, a booklet which looks a bit like logarithms . It is actually a series of charts, giving the actual positions of the planets, and fixed stars, every day, for a year. The earth and moon are also counted as planets .Their positions are calculated separately, I think, it’s been a long time.

All systems of astrology, as far as I’m aware , are geo-centric.

So yeah, some skill was needed to accurately to cast a chart. I say ‘was’.Today there are sophisticated applications which will cast a chart and print out a detailed interpretation in less than a minute. On the face of it, this provides astrology with a veneer of scientific veracity. This does not survive scrutiny.

24

Miko: I’m an astrologer (vedic) and I wouldn’t be if it hadn’t been proven to me it’s level of accuracy.

Can you give some examples?

Who or what do you suppose is behind these predictions? If the stars are telling you things, who or what is manipulating the stars to be able to do this? Where does the information you claim is accurate come from?

Miko: However, $20,000 is an insane amount of money to ask for, don’t give it to him, any ol astrologer could make the same predictions, there is nothing special here!

You’re right about that. He’s being scammed.

 

 

25

Patrick,

“One of the handiest tools has been a common logical fallacy “After this, therefore because of this” (post hoc, ergo propter hoc) Using this tool, shamans and witchdoctors of all kinds have been using coincidence as predictive. IE when X happened, Y also happened. Therefore X caused Y .”

 

That does seem to be a pretty common logical fallacy, and I’ve fallen for it a lot. It seems to be my brain’s natural go to at points. Sometimes I’ll think of a word, and the same word will be said on TV or by someone, and it’ll feel like some being or human somewhere is arranging events to happen in a certain way, and I get paranoid. I wouldn’t react emotionally if it didn’t happen so much. It seems like I’m just delusional or hallucinating, which is what psychiatry would probably say.

 

Philosophicus

26

Almost none of us here believes in numerology. If you’’d like to show objective evidence that it is valid, we’re all ears. We’re not interested in empty, unsupported claims, though.

27

Look up the guy’s criminal record. He’s likely a known grifter. Have your guy say to him these words exactly. “I’m convinced. Let’s go to my lawyer to get a contract drawn up, just to protect both of us.” He will absolutely have a problem with that.

28

One may want to consider that most astrological charts are based on 2D representations (wheels) without regard to 3D configuration (spherical) in space.

This is classic astrology, in which planetary latitude is completely ignored in all aspect calculations. The two bodies are exactly Conjunct with a 0 degree orb, even though they're actually far apart in the sky. 3D aspects ON & 3D orbs off: Square with 0 degree orb. This is pure 3D astrology, in which planetary latitude is just as important as longitude in aspect and orb determination.
3D Astrology
http://www.astrolog.org/astrolog/screen/sphere.gif(image larger than 4 MB)

http://www.astrolog.org/astrolog/ast3d.htm

29

I did tarot card reading for a short time in my late teens. I had one girl break down and cry because the cards told her everything she already knew but didn’t want to hear. It wasn’t long after that when I realized that it told everybody what they already knew but, strangely, they had to tell me because the cards wouldn’t.

30

Why do modern people believe in astrology?
To begin with, astrology is hiding something mystical and exciting. There are so many people on Earth, and it is scientifically proven that almost 90% of them know their sign of the sun. This means that regardless of ancient origin, astrology easily penetrated the modern world. Many scientists say that there is no scientific basis for this, but this does not prevent people from reading their horoscopes. Why? Want a scientific answer? Well, this is what we are going to provide!https://horo.io/articles/signs/astrology-from-the-scientifical-point-of-view

31

You guys are too good, i thank and appreciation alot everybody for sharing lot of knowledge.