Quoting cc: “acknowledge the CO2 trend that started mid-1800 and that makes all the difference on Earth.”
logicbob - “Changing CO2 levels have always been the cause of short term climate change. I have never denied this.”
Cc: No, instead you trivialize it to meaningless nothing to be disregarded - that is every bit as contemptible and dishonest and outright denying it!
It’s just as bad as unidirectional ‘skepticism’.
logicbob - “CO2 levels over history have been much higher than they are today. Surely you cannot deny that.”
Cc: That’s insane. History goes back a few thousand years!
Earth’s evolution goes back millions and billions of years.
Recalling periods in Earth’s deep geologic past is nothing but dishonest diversion away from the reality of the numbers and the physics that we are dealing with today.
It’s not like you ever examine those ancient eons of very high CO2 levels to understand why they were so high or to understand the ways in which those ancient periods are significantly different from today world and sun.
Worst you deliberately don’t want to learn about it.
Imbecilic diversions is all you are offering.
logicbob - “The recent increase in CO2 levels has been primarily due to human actions. I have never denied this.”
Cc: Of course you are denying it! Your glib disingenuous bit of lip service not withstanding.
By never examining what our CO2 reality means in actual physical terms. That is, considering how much we are injecting into our atmosphere and what the results of that increasing atmospheric insulation medium means, so far as cascading consequences.
You haven’t familiarized yourself with any of that, but still you gotta do the Republican chest thumping with causal thoughtless self-certainty.
logicbob - “Where this leaves us is that we must acknowledge that climate change is happening and will continue to happen. I think we all agree on that.”
Cc: Another indication of amazing disconnected from Physical Reality (or back to plain dishonest?) - anyone, who’s ever spent the slightest time looking into evolution appreciates that Earth’s climate is/will always fluctuate.
Logic, you ever think about the well understood “history” and evolutionary paleoclimate lesson, which is that every major climate change in Earth’s history has significantly damaged, if not destroyed the biosphere in existence at the time.
Why doesn’t Logic ever consider the amazing climate optimum of the past ten thousands and what a gift of Earth it was?
Something to be nurtured and hung onto as long as possible, for our children’s sake. Why? Because people who actually study and think about these things, understand that our society is dependent on this “climate optimum” and that as soon as we deviate from it a bunch, Earth and weather would become increasing hostile to all our demands upon her landscapes and oceans.
Logicbob claims to have studied nature, well, then why no appreciation for the folds within folds of nature’s complexity and interdependences?
Why are we willfully forcing our climate system into realms that will not sustain human society and then after a few more decades may in good probably make all complex life impossible. Bringing Earth’s evolution right back to basics, much like all the other major climate changes in Earth’s Evolution.
Of course, in the end it’s all the blink of an eye so Logic, what’s a few years, a few decades, a few millennia, or millions of years - none of it makes an impression - it’s all the same.
logicbob - “In one of the links I posted the author stated that even if we were to burn up all the fossil fuels on Earth we could not come close to causing a runaway greenhouse effect. Surely we can all agree that,"
Cc: Agree on what? That Earth’s oceans won’t boil away and turn us into Venus??? Great is that supposed to be some kind of victory for us??? Don’t you appreciate that even the most conservative learned guesses at the impacts of 2°C warming.
Now the estimate range from 3-5°C, to 7°C in a 2018 Presidential report. That’s not runaway warming, but it’ll extinct us.
What’s in the world do you think your sources are telling you logicBob, can you explain the rationale at work here - is it possible?
I’m worried about us rearranging all those webs that run through our biosphere, that took millions of years (built upon the previous 50 millions years) to achieve humanity’s past nine, ten millennia of climate optimum. The thing that nurtured human society during our history of global conquest.
logicbob - “while climate change will be uncomfortable and will require major adjustments, we are not going to cause our own extinction by burning fossil fuels.”
Cc: “Uncomfortable”? That line makes me wish you were in front of me so I could bitch slap some sense into you (with those rolled up scientific papers you keep ignoring).
Unfortunately, the trends say something very, very, terrifyingly different. Observation support the fears that rapid change is gaining momentum. Blinding oneself to those trends does not make them disappear. We’re living in a material world don’t you know!
logicbob - “I don’t see what your point is. I have seen you make no proposal to do anything. I expect we will not give up burning fossil fuels any time soon. There are no reasonable alternatives for transportation without disrupting society as we know it. Giving up fossil fuels in the short term is a prime example of the cure being worse than the problem."
Cc: I’ve made plenty of proposals.
> Starts with honestly learning about this planet that created and sustains us!
> That is followed with a bit less self-serving greed.
> Followed by a genuine appreciation for the difference between our mindscapes and physical reality - plus drawing obvious conclusions from that.
>> Followed by a public dialogue that demands honesty, where constructive learning is the goal, and deliberately maliciously misrepresenting and slandering scientists is considered a crime.
We really did have the future of the world in our hands during the ‘60s, ‘70s, ‘80s - even after squandering those precious decades, slowing things down during the early 2000s would have helped to moderate initial impacts and buy us time to deal with the developing situation.
Instead, corporate masters of the universe convinced us to go peddle to the metal,. They geared up the brainwashing machine and slowly torn apart and burn up the fabric of America’s “Social Contract” with itself and humanity.
logicbob - “We can hope electric cars and trucks will become viable soon, but I think the problems that will bring with it are not known. Have we discovered enough lithium to make even a fraction of the batteries needed? Will we be willing to build the 100 or 200 nuke power plants that would be required just in the US? What will we do with the waste from the mining and manufacture of lithium? Can we recycle and/or dispose of the batteries safely? There are similar questions for solar energy production, storage and distribution. I’ve only scratched the surface here.”
Cc: What the hell does that have to do with the geophysics unfolding upon our planet?
Crawl out of that Republican Mindscape that’s trapped youz all within your collective EGOs and childish trivia such as your electric cars - crack that shell and refocus on the actual physical world out here, the ultimate entity, the one that doesn’t really care about your expectations and assumptions.
Earth and evolution does what it does and plays by simple, but absolutely binding rules.
Sadly, I bet not a bit of that makes a bit of sense within your head. Wish I could convey what a bummer that is Bob."
logicbob - “We can hope these questions will be addressed satisfactorily but I suspect it won’t happen soon. Meanwhile climate change will continue and may accelerate.”
Cc: “may”? Love that one. “May”, even scientists are way the hell too fond of it. Everyone seems terrified of being honest and using “WILL” happen.
If I put on a few extra sweaters on nice warm day, I “may” get too warm working outside.
Of course, I “may” go and hide in the shade doing nothing.
Ergo extra sweater “may” make you warmer or not.
As opposed to you’re damned straight you silly goose, those extra sweaters WILL warm you up and Earth WILL continue warming for a long long long time.
Hopefully it doesn’t turn into that runaway, probably not.
That gives us Earth Centrists with an appreciation for deep time and the awareness that Earth does recover from extreme disruptions and life keeps on coming up with amazing creatures and biomes. Even if it’s take tens of thousands, if not hundreds and perhaps millions of years to recover from the cascading consequences of humanity’s imperative to consume Earth fast as possible. It offers us a little bit of spiritual comfort in ugly days.
But Bob, you can be sure we won’t be building any more nuclear power plants - we’re entering the age of rear actions and tactical retreats, new realities to cope with, while ever more heat and upheaval builds up.
Thanks Bob, the logic man for doing your part in helping ensure worst possible outcomes."
logicbob - “My point is we need to address at least rising sea levels and population migration because we will have to live with it for the foreseeable future regardless of what we do or don’t do about rising CO2 levels.”
Cc: My point is you don’t have the first clue what rising sea levels really means for us and our way of life. Migrating peoples is the f’n least of it! Not that I don’t appreciate that will be hideous enough in itself, but … there’s so much more going on yet you can’t think past spoon fed cartoons.
