# Ayn Hirsi Ali says what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics and Social Issues\ **Created:** [December 4, 2023, 7:26pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578 "2023-12-04T19:26:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 7:26pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/1 "2023-12-04T19:26:46Z")
If you don’t know who she is, check her out. Her autobiography is amazing. She has been included with the big four of the atheist movement. > **[The Enemy of Her Enemy | Free Inquiry](https://secularhumanism.org/exclusive/the-enemy-of-her-enemy/)** > > Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the globally celebrated intellectual, author, and activist whose books have titles such as Infidel and Heretic, announced in an essay at Unherd on November 11, 2023, that she was no longer an atheist and now calls herself a... But now, she says she’s Christian. This CFI article covers it well and includes comments on Paul Kingsnorth, another Secularist who turned Christian. It’s an unusual conversion for Ali, because she seems to be starting out as a Christian who doesn’t believe much. Maybe this will be good. Maybe she will still advocate against fundamentalist just as much as she alwsys has. ---
**Author:** ![coffee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/coffee/32/28536_2.png) [@coffee](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/coffee)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 8:37pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/2 "2023-12-04T20:37:10Z")
Wow, it’ll take a while to digest that. > Blockquote > Ali became a Christian primarily because it seemed to her to be the best way to defeat authoritarian powers such as Russia and China, global Islamism, and “woke ideology.” I don’t get it. Isn’t Christianity where the “woke ideology” comes from? ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 11:38pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/3 "2023-12-04T23:38:33Z")
Yeah, a lot of people don’t get it. She’s coming from a Right perspective, where wokeism is about equality of outcomes and increaesing inclusion and expressing cultural traditions. ---
**Author:** ![coffee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/coffee/32/28536_2.png) [@coffee](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/coffee)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 12:27am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/4 "2023-12-05T00:27:36Z")
That’s a Right perspective? I hear woke and just think Desantis who thinks woke means accepting LGBTQ+ and he hates that. ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 12:31am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/5 "2023-12-05T00:31:14Z")
> [@coffee](#): > > That’s a Right perspective? It’s a Right perspective that those things I listed are bad. > **[How being “woke” lost its meaning](https://www.vox.com/culture/21437879/stay-woke-wokeness-history-origin-evolution-controversy)** > > Stay woke: How a Black activist watchword got co-opted in the culture war. ---
**Author:** ![coffee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/coffee/32/28536_2.png) [@coffee](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/coffee)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 12:32am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/6 "2023-12-05T00:32:43Z")
Ahh, got it! I’m writing extra so i can post… ---
**Author:** ![coffee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/coffee/32/28536_2.png) [@coffee](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/coffee)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 12:56am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/7 "2023-12-05T00:56:18Z")
@lausten that was funny. We got crossed up in which version of woke we were using - the original intelligent definition vs the hateful new definition from the right. ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 1:11am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/8 "2023-12-05T01:11:20Z")
I know. I remember when “politically correct” first came into use, while I was in college. The same type of thing. I’m really tired of these phrases. ---
**Author:** ![mriana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mriana/32/18174_2.png) [@mriana](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mriana)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 4:05am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/9 "2023-12-05T04:05:06Z")
Wait! What? She goes from being Muslim to atheism to Xianity? None of it makes any sense, but then again, I guess that’s one way to be “born again”. Makes me wonder if she ever was an atheist or if she was agnostic and decided Xianity was better. Maybe she needed a sense of community and in the Black community church is community. I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![coffee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/coffee/32/28536_2.png) [@coffee](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/coffee)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 4:16pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/10 "2023-12-05T16:16:00Z")
Growing up in a very male dominated society, she is perhaps heavily influenced by her husband Niall Ferguson (and Hoover Institute). 💡 ---
**Author:** ![mriana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mriana/32/18174_2.png) [@mriana](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mriana)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 6:56pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/11 "2023-12-05T18:56:57Z")
According to Wickedpedia, Niall Ferguson is an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![coffee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/coffee/32/28536_2.png) [@coffee](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/coffee)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 7:22pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/12 "2023-12-05T19:22:07Z")
Yes, but… start around 4:30 in the video [LINK](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gSMCx0FD_O0) ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 9:02pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/13 "2023-12-05T21:02:31Z")
> [@coffee](#): > > Growing up in a very male dominated society, she is perhaps heavily influenced by her husband Niall Ferguson (and Hoover Institute). I don’t know about her married life. She was born in a middle-class Muslim family in Africa. She went to school, relatively progressive, but when it came time to be married, that was “arranged” with an older man that she had never met. She saw a future with little opportunity and possibly not much freedom. The new husband was in Canada, so she managed to escape when her plane landed in Denmark, with the help of people there. Denmark was quite free, and she quickly made her mark by speaking up about the repression of women in Islam. She has written extensively, made a movie, and served in government. The first time I saw her was in a debate about Islam being an religion of peace. Her and Charles Murray argued in the negative. [It was an NPR Intelligence Squared Broadcast.](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130516428) This might indicate some of her more recent leanings [(52) Navigating the culture wars with Douglas Murray and Ayaan Hirsi Ali - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOlEs7rGAs0) ---
**Author:** ![mriana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mriana/32/18174_2.png) [@mriana](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mriana)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 12:50am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/14 "2023-12-06T00:50:02Z")
> [@coffee](#): > > Yes, but… start around 4:30 in the video It’s the “yes, but…” that gets me. Being on Megan Kelly says a lot too. He also confuses religion with spirituality. You can have a form of spirituality without religion. Just appreciating nature can give a numinous feeling, which I think is in and of itself spiritual. One doesn’t need church for any of that. Nature can be one’s church or just being at one with yourself and the universe can be enough. One doesn’t need a human created deity or a church to have spirituality. Of course, this all depends on what one defines as “spiritual”. ---
**Author:** ![coffee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/coffee/32/28536_2.png) [@coffee](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/coffee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 2:16am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/15 "2023-12-06T02:16:33Z")
I find spirituality in my own non-church ways myself including nature for sure. The link to the video was to show that she is following her husband’s ways that include church. ---
**Author:** ![write4u](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/write4u/32/23410_2.png) [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 2:47am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/16 "2023-12-06T02:47:36Z")
That could be just an accommodation. I have accompanied a friend to church and suffered the experience for my friend’s comfort. ---
**Author:** ![mriana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/mriana/32/18174_2.png) [@mriana](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/mriana)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 3:18am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/17 "2023-12-06T03:18:24Z")
> [@coffee](#): > > The link to the video was to show that she is following her husband’s ways that include church. Which means she is still believing the oppressive beliefs of patriarchy and doesn’t know how to react to a husband who believes they should go to church for the children. Although I didn’t know she gave birth to any babies recently. Maybe all of the kids are from the previous marriage, which means he hasn’t heard of birth control with 5 kids. ---
**Author:** ![coffee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/coffee/32/28536_2.png) [@coffee](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/coffee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 1:28pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/18 "2023-12-06T13:28:35Z")
@mriana Yes, that could be true. Or perhaps she is just exercising all of her options. I can’t say what’s in her thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![lozenge](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lozenge/32/23405_2.png) [@lozenge](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lozenge)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 2:50pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/19 "2023-12-06T14:50:46Z")
> [@coffee](#): > > I don’t get it. Isn’t Christianity where the “woke ideology” comes from? Why the “woke ideology” comes from Christianity? ---
**Author:** ![coffee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/coffee/32/28536_2.png) [@coffee](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/coffee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578/20 "2023-12-06T15:13:47Z")
@lozenge My bad. Christianity is where **anti-woke** came from. Homophobia, xenophobia, etc. [Next page](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/ayn-hirsi-ali-says-what/10578.md?page=2)