# Are We just Biochemical Machine?! **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 5, 2015, 6:29am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051 "2015-01-05T06:29:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![anistein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/anistein/32/97_2.png) [@anistein](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/anistein)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 6:29am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/1 "2015-01-05T06:29:18Z")
I know we are just biochemical machine made of stardust, but I don’t want to believe that knowing what we are made of makes us completely emotionless physical machine. It seems the neurons of the brain that control emotions are dead in the brain of hardcore atheists and scientists. I am a De facto atheist, and I am a human being with emotion, not a machine like you guys. I got the reason why religious shits have been dominating the world for thousands of years, it is because of their emotions or compassion for the people those who follow them. On the other hand, hardcore atheist are too materialistic, they don’t feel any compassion for another atheist who is in bad situation, unless he or she becomes the victim of fundamentalists. I used to debating over different Facebook pages about Islam and Science till 2013. I stopped doing that when our government arrested some freethinkers imposing blasphemy law, and some have been killed by Islamic fundamentalist. I know, if I get victim of Islamic fundamentalists then many websites of atheism and humanism will start shouting and will make big post about me, but they will not help me before that. I don’t know why all the websites of atheism have options “Donate”… Do they help anyone?! I don’t think so!!..seems they are trying to make business as Religions do!!! ---
**Author:** ![loisl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/loisl/32/18_2.png) [@loisl](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/loisl)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 1:10pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/2 "2015-01-05T13:10:58Z")
> I know we are just biochemical machine made of stardust, Stardust is not a componemt of humans. but I don't want to believe that knowing what we are made of makes us completely emotionless physical machine. Knowing what we are made of has never been shown to affect human emotions. It seems the neurons of the brain that control emotions are dead in the brain of hardcore atheists and scientists. I am sure you have empirical evidence of this and don't just make wild, unsupported statements. . Please direct us to the evidence. I am a De facto atheist, and I am a human being with emotion, not a machine like you guys. Another unsupported claim, the direct result of unscientific thinking. Perhaps you can define "defacto atheist" for us. I got the reason why religious shits have been dominating the world for thousands of years, it is because of their emotions or compassion for the people those who follow them. On the other hand, hardcore atheist are too materialistic, they don't feel any compassion for another atheist who is in bad situation, unless he or she becomes the victim of fundamentalists. Please support this contention with objective evidence. I used to debating over different Facebook pages about Islam and Science till 2013. I stopped doing that when our government arrested some freethinkers imposing blasphemy law, and some have been killed by Islamic fundamentalist. I know, if I get victim of Islamic fundamentalists then many websites of atheism and humanism will start shouting and will make big post about me, but they will not help me before that. I don't know why all the websites of atheism have options "Donate".... Do they help anyone?! I don't think so!!....seems they are trying to make business as Religions do!!! Please show where this website has a "donate" option. In fact, CFI, the sponsor of thos forum, is a Humanist organizaion and helps people all over the world. If you think any organization should help people, please explain how you think they should pay their expenses without donations. If you have a way to do this, you will be a person of world renown. Every charitable organization in the world will want to know your method. Please respond ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![dpkeele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@dpkeele](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/dpkeele)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/3 "2015-01-05T14:53:18Z")
> I know we are just biochemical machine made of stardust, but I don't want to believe that knowing what we are made of makes us completely emotionless physical machine. It seems the neurons of the brain that control emotions are dead in the brain of hardcore atheists and scientists. I am a De facto atheist, and I am a human being with emotion, not a machine like you guys. I got the reason why religious shits have been dominating the world for thousands of years, it is because of their emotions or compassion for the people those who follow them. On the other hand, hardcore atheist are too materialistic, they don't feel any compassion for another atheist who is in bad situation, unless he or she becomes the victim of fundamentalists. I used to debating over different Facebook pages about Islam and Science till 2013. I stopped doing that when our government arrested some freethinkers imposing blasphemy law, and some have been killed by Islamic fundamentalist. I know, if I get victim of Islamic fundamentalists then many websites of atheism and humanism will start shouting and will make big post about me, but they will not help me before that. I don't know why all the websites of atheism have options "Donate".... Do they help anyone?! I don't think so!!....seems they are trying to make business as Religions do!!! Amazing, how these troll machines almost imitate something that could be confused with sentience. But not quite. ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/4 "2015-01-05T18:20:13Z")
Wow. Lots to chew on there. Is English your first language? If it’s not, then that is not an insult, I just want to know. If it is, please take a little more care with grammar and spelling. There 4 or 5 topics in your post, all of them can be found in other threads. You’re free to start your own thread, but you’ll get a better response if you narrow your focus. Here are some choices: Anti-theistic activism Should people get paid to do it? Does it just make regular atheists look bad? Does it help people (like a gay person persecuted in his community)? Neuro-science A lot of threads degrade into a discussion of free will The compatibilist version of free will The Straw Vulcan (look it up, kinda fun) I could go on ---
**Author:** ![loisl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/loisl/32/18_2.png) [@loisl](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/loisl)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 5:47am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/5 "2015-01-06T05:47:09Z")
> Wow. Lots to chew on there. Is English your first language? If it's not, then that is not an insult, I just want to know. If it is, please take a little more care with grammar and spelling. There 4 or 5 topics in your post, all of them can be found in other threads. You're free to start your own thread, but you'll get a better response if you narrow your focus. Here are some choices: Anti-theistic activism Should people get paid to do it? Does it just make regular atheists look bad? Does it help people (like a gay person persecuted in his community)? Neuro-science A lot of threads degrade into a discussion of free will The compatibilist version of free will The Straw Vulcan (look it up, kinda fun) I could go on I guess he's gone. Throw the cold water of reason on trolls and they disappear. Lois ---
**Author:** ![timb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@timb](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/timb)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/6 "2015-01-06T23:02:36Z")
You guys are quick to label someone a troll. Anyway, in my experience with trolls, “reason” does not typically seem to dissuade them. ---
**Author:** ![write4u](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/write4u/32/23410_2.png) [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/7 "2015-01-06T23:06:22Z")
> You guys are quick to label someone a troll. Anyway, in my experience with trolls, "reason" does not typically seem to dissuade them. A couple buckets of cold water will usually do the trick. Trolls can't swim and when they get into deep water, they just sink. ---
**Author:** ![timb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@timb](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/timb)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/8 "2015-01-06T23:24:41Z")
> You guys are quick to label someone a troll. Anyway, in my experience with trolls, "reason" does not typically seem to dissuade them. A couple buckets of cold water will usually do the trick. Trolls can't swim and when they get into deep water, they just sink. Well, I've heard that trolls turn to stone in sunlight. I never heard about their aversion to cold water. ---
**Author:** ![write4u](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/write4u/32/23410_2.png) [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/9 "2015-01-07T00:49:54Z")
> You guys are quick to label someone a troll. Anyway, in my experience with trolls, "reason" does not typically seem to dissuade them. A couple buckets of cold water will usually do the trick. Trolls can't swim and when they get into deep water, they just sink. Well, I've heard that trolls turn to stone in sunlight. I never heard about their aversion to cold water. Whe trolls get wet they metamorphosize into fungus. After a rain, one can see many mushrooms sprout. Trolls. ---
**Author:** ![loisl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/loisl/32/18_2.png) [@loisl](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/loisl)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/10 "2015-01-07T02:23:20Z")
> You guys are quick to label someone a troll. Anyway, in my experience with trolls, "reason" does not typically seem to dissuade them. We aren't quick to label someone a troll. We are very patient. When they stop posting they prove that they are indeed trolls. Notice that this one appears to be gone--a sure sign of a troll, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![write4u](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/write4u/32/23410_2.png) [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 4:09am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/11 "2015-01-07T04:09:59Z")
Back to the OP. If a thermometer senses that the air is cooling, it automatically switches ON the furnace. When the furnace senses that there is too much moisture in the system it shuts down for safety reasons. Any device that triggers an appropriate action from sensory input is “acting” logically and properly. One might say, “intelligently”. When we speak of self-awareness, we assume it its an extraordinary ability. But if all living organisms are self-aware what sets us apart is the ability to think about this in the abstract, instead as a direct physical experience, IMO. We can imagine events in the abstract. I doubt many other animals come close to this super advanced processing of multiple inputs. Their excellence is more specialized, our excellence is our evolutionary advance from scavenger to environmental engineer, able to create environments that suit our frail bodies with incredible appetites. Rudimentary examples in nature can be found in the Herder Ant. > Herding Aphids: How ‘Farmer’ Ants Keep Control Of Their Food > **[Herding Aphids: How 'Farmer' Ants Keep Control Of Their Food](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071009212548.htm)** > > Chemicals on ants' feet tranquilise and subdue colonies of aphids, keeping them close by as a ready source of food, says new research. The study throws new light on the complex relationship between ants and the colonies of aphids whose sugary... ---
**Author:** ![ockham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@ockham](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/ockham)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/12 "2015-01-07T12:41:37Z")
> I know we are just biochemical machine made of stardust, Stardust is not a componemt of humans. I don't know whether anistein babu is a troll or not - but just to be accurate Carl Sagan was quite right when he said we are made of stardust. The only element in our makeup that hasn't been nucleosynthesised is the hydrogen in the water and hydrocarbons of our bodies, this came from the Big Bang itself. All other elements, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron, phosphorus etc. have been produced in the nuclear fusion reactors at the cores of stars somewhat larger than and pre-existing the Sun. These elements were then scattered into space when the parent stars went supernova. The Sun and solar system then formed from the gas and dust debris through gravitational collapse. We are stardust. “Be humble for you are made of earth. Be noble for you are made of stars." ~ Serbian Proverb ---
**Author:** ![lausten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/lausten/32/23705_2.png) [@lausten](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/lausten)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/13 "2015-01-07T13:54:53Z")
I just noticed A.B. posted a series sub-titled “am I loser”. Seems he really had something to get of his chest. Did anyone read them? And tl;dr is one indication of troll. BTW ---
**Author:** ![stephenlawrence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@stephenlawrence](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/stephenlawrence)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/14 "2015-01-07T14:29:20Z")
> I guess he's gone. Throw the cold water of reason on trolls and they disappear. Lois What little I read he is someone in extreme distress because he's in extremely difficult circumstances in a place where being an atheist makes him suicidal because of family attitudes and because he's in real danger from Islamic fundamentalists. I didn't comment cos I really didn't see how I could help. But he at least doesn't need more shit. Well that's how it seems unless I've misinterpreted the situation. ---
**Author:** ![loisl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/loisl/32/18_2.png) [@loisl](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/loisl)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 12:54am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/15 "2015-01-08T00:54:32Z")
He 's either a troll or an idiot. Take your choice. Lois ---
**Author:** ![write4u](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/write4u/32/23410_2.png) [@write4u](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/write4u)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/16 "2015-01-08T01:15:21Z")
> I guess he's gone. Throw the cold water of reason on trolls and they disappear. Lois What little I read he is someone in extreme distress because he's in extremely difficult circumstances in a place where being an atheist makes him suicidal because of family attitudes and because he's in real danger from Islamic fundamentalists. I didn't comment cos I really didn't see how I could help. But he at least doesn't need more shit. Well that's how it seems unless I've misinterpreted the situation. I agree with your more moderate stance. After some thought, I have come to the conclusion that my lighthearted comments about trolls in general were really not appropriate on Center For Inquiry. The OP is a valid but poorly posed question and is certainly worthy of serious discussion. It was the extraneous information which confused the issue, leading to the dismissive responses by the posters (including myself). As Humanists, we should and can do better! ---
**Author:** ![loisl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.centerforinquiry.org/loisl/32/18_2.png) [@loisl](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/loisl)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/17 "2015-01-08T03:13:15Z")
> I know we are just biochemical machine made of stardust, Stardust is not a componemt of humans. I don't know whether anistein babu is a troll or not - but just to be accurate Carl Sagan was quite right when he said we are made of stardust. We knew that Sagan and the Serbian were being poetic. I doubt that Anistein Babu was. He was being completely literal. In fact, he said we are biochemical machines made of stardust. Sagan never said that. Lois The only element in our makeup that hasn't been nucleosynthesised is the hydrogen in the water and hydrocarbons of our bodies, this came from the Big Bang itself. All other elements, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron, phosphorus etc. have been produced in the nuclear fusion reactors at the cores of stars somewhat larger than and pre-existing the Sun. These elements were then scattered into space when the parent stars went supernova. The Sun and solar system then formed from the gas and dust debris through gravitational collapse. We are stardust. “Be humble for you are made of earth. Be noble for you are made of stars." ~ Serbian Proverb ---
**Author:** ![ockham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@ockham](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/ockham)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 9:09am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/18 "2015-01-08T09:09:49Z")
Something went wrong with the edit - my post below ---
**Author:** ![ockham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@ockham](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/ockham)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:08am UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/19 "2015-01-08T10:08:25Z")
> I don't know whether anistein babu is a troll or not - but just to be accurate Carl Sagan was quite right when he said we are made of stardust. ... “Be humble for you are made of earth. Be noble for you are made of stars." ~ Serbian Proverb We knew that Sagan and the Serbian were being poetic. I doubt that Anistein Babu was. He was being completely literal. In fact, he said we are biochemical machines made of stardust. Sagan never said that. Lois Undoubtedly the Serb was being poetic, Carl Sagan certainly wasn't, the only word in my quote from AB that he might have taken issue with is the word 'machine'. Sagan certainly thought that we are biochemical organisms and all the elements in our makeup apart from hydrogen were synthesised in earlier stellar cores. [Note though that elements heavier than iron were synthesised in the supernova explosion that scattered all those elements into deep space.] You may find some quotes from [Positive Atheism's Big List of Carl Sagan Quotations](http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/sagan.htm)] helpful: Carl Sagan: "_We are_.... star stuff contemplating star stuff ... -- Carl Sagan, on humankind: Interviewer: "Didn't [Sagan] want to believe?" Druyan: "He didn't want to believe. He wanted to know." -- Ann Druyan (attributed: source unknown) The quote "We are stardust" was taken from his book and TV series 'Cosmos'. You might also find this link to "Universe Today" helpful: [We Are Made of Stardust](http://www.universetoday.com/99741/we-are-made-of-stardust/)]. The Serb happened to be also scientifically correct. ---
**Author:** ![timb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@timb](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/u/timb)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051/20 "2015-01-08T16:17:53Z")
> You guys are quick to label someone a troll. Anyway, in my experience with trolls, "reason" does not typically seem to dissuade them. We aren't quick to label someone a troll. We are very patient. When they stop posting they prove that they are indeed trolls. Notice that this one appears to be gone--a sure sign of a troll, IMO. IMO, that guy would be more accurately described as "troubled" rather than trollish. [Next page](https://forum.centerforinquiry.org/t/are-we-just-biochemical-machine/4051.md?page=2)